Diablo® III

Monster melee attack range

this game just lost a lot of its longevity for me (thought it was going to be the game to end all games)

you just took most of the action out of a-rpg

back before i knew of the combat problems (yes, they are problems) i was saying things to my friends like

"man i cant wait to play diablo again, and have real time combat where i actually hafta dodge stuff - itll be so refreshing of a change from WoW"

i am dissapoint, worst news ive heard so far about this game (tho pretty much the only bad news... but this is one of the worst things that could have been said)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY

setting up systems to take the skill away is bad, i hope someday you guys realize this

i cant believe im saying this... but i really hope i dont end up having to play guild wars 2 or torchlight 2 or path of exile...

/shudder

what was your motto again? easy to learn, easy to master or something?

yay face tanking, so much fun -.-

seriously, as bad as path of exile is compared to d3, bash, go play it, and let me know how much you can get away with without defending any other way (it wont be much, unless you really have a knack for it)

its just another tool at our disposal in the defense category, and the only one in the finesse category (d3 now has nothing in the finesse category)

do you really think its that easy to juke and sway your way through hordes of enemies? sure its easy when fighting one guy, that is, if his swings are slow... but come on, open your eyes

many swings are too quick to juke anyways

no wonder you say inferno should take weeks to get past act 2, you put a cheat system in the game to take away any skill advantage, making us face tank. i dont think you devs realize how much skill it would take to turn juking into breaking the game. (which is why i say go play path of exile and try using dodging as your only defense) especially when monsters attack pretty fast

now we have a single player / small multiplayer WoW

now im starting to think that the hitboxes being overly large and the lack of accurate shooting due to not having a way to unlock the sticky targeting / force no target function really is a part of your philosophy, and not an oversight. you really do want functions in play to "help" us by adding systems to auto aim for us dont you? you really think its a good idea to "help" us aim... and you dont want us to have a function to turn off the targeting so we can better aim our aoe shots like firebomb / acid cloud / meteor... no, those skills would be too powerful if you could get them to accurately hit a full group of monsters huh?

im glad you guys didnt make counter strike, having our aim going within an inch (on screen) of an enemy would auto lock to their head if you guys made it

/scoff

/end rant... for now
Edited by D3BETA on 4/11/2012 3:18 PM PDT
So, in later difficulties the goal really isn't to dodge incoming missiles, it's to set up your defenses so you can survive the damage? I had assumed dodging incoming attacks via lots of movement would be high priority.


Sounds like it. They wish to remove skill from the game and instead have survivability based on how many unavoidable hits we can withstand.

We seem to be able to dodge missiles. If I dodged a missile and it still damaged me I'd be on these forums complaining about this bug. Why is that excusable for melee? Barbarians and monks in melee range will still get punched.

This is something I disagree with. My barbarian needs to be adjacent to monsters to hit them with my axe. Why does a monster get the luxury of punching me from 10 yards away as I'm retreating? It almost sounds like lazy game coding...but whatever, you're not willing to budge on this stance.


it's still very easy to not get hit.. by kiting, but they probably don't want it to become impossible for things to hit you simply cause you can kite forever.. if something gets in range, it should hit you, if constantly moving dodges every attack, it wouldn't be much of a skill thing.. the skill comes from never letting something get close enough to take a swing at you
Edited by D3BETA on 4/11/2012 2:50 PM PDT
Posts: 3,252
D1, D2, and now D3 all have the same dodge abilities in melee. If the hit started and you were adjacent to the monster, it always lands even if you move away - unless you do something active to interrupt the swing.

My monk in beta can take on multiple unburied without ever getting hit. I pair the thunderclap skill with lashing tail kick to repeatedly knockback, then strike the opponents. I make sure to have full spirit before engaging, because at the end I'm usually totally dry. I usually open with blind as well for good measure.

This feels way more fun than pecking away, then dodging out, pecking some more, etc. The barb equivalent would be to use a runed leap to engage, stunning on landing, get a few hits in, then ground stomp, then finish them off. In higher difficulties this won't be as forgiving, so you'll need weapons with chance on hit to cause monsters to flee or stun to avoid hits.

Analogies to Mario games are pretty absurd. In Mario you have 3 hitpoints maximum -- a power up, mushroom, then small. Dodging there was fundamental to gameplay. Soaking hits is not possible or recommended.
Posts: 521
04/11/2012 02:54 PMPosted by Jim
Analogies to Mario games are pretty absurd.


I would call an intentional game design solution that lets you get hit by melee mobs from over half a screen distance away, absurd.
04/11/2012 02:49 PMPosted by D3BETA
Also, who are you to say what is fun? Maybe there are a lot of people that enjoy dodging in and out of enemies and, you know, actually using tactics and precision while taking on enemies instead of just relying on sticky targeting and popping all their cooldown abilities when surrounded. Thanks for disregarding the more hardcore part of the playerbase once again...


They're the professionals who are paid to design and create the game. Therefore they get to dictate what is "fun" in the context of their game and how they want it to be played.
This happened in D2 as well, it's just more apparent in D3 because it's 3D and has full animations, so it's jarring.

Don't want to get hit? Stay out of melee range, you will never get hit if you stay out of range, you will only get hit if you do get into melee range and try to get away, it will never be a problem if you can control your character well enough to never get into melee range, which is still skill and action.
Posts: 4,074
Sounds like it. They wish to remove skill from the game and instead have survivability based on how many unavoidable hits we can withstand.


Of course you can dodge some attacks, but they don't what every melee swipe from a monster to be easily dodgeable by clicking your mouse one pixel away. There are stats for a reason. There is even an actual Dodge stat. This is more about exploit prevention, not removing skill. Blizzard wants you to cast Teleport to avoid some attacks...not just by clicking to the left...What Bash said made complete sense. Movement dodging will still work for the big Ranged or telegraphed melee attacks, but having every monster's "auto-attack" subject to precise hit detection could make the most effective defensive tactic just boring side-stepping.
90 Worgen Mage
2235
Posts: 34
Also, who are you to say what is fun? Maybe there are a lot of people that enjoy dodging in and out of enemies and, you know, actually using tactics and precision while taking on enemies instead of just relying on sticky targeting and popping all their cooldown abilities when surrounded. Thanks for disregarding the more hardcore part of the playerbase once again...


They're the professionals who are paid to design and create the game. Therefore they get to dictate what is "fun" in the context of their game and how they want it to be played.


To the first quoted text: Feeling like you should be bobbin'-and-weavin' the melee hits of normal mobs throughout an isometric ARPG is just fail gameplay. No way could this be fun for the Monk & Barb, maybe for ranged classes.

To the second quoted: Correct, and they should hopefully have a better idea of what's fun since their jobs and profit lie in the balance.

Personally I agree with this system as opposed to a system of running in-and-out with a melee class. And I'm sure there are more out there like me.
Edited by Mercules on 4/11/2012 3:13 PM PDT
Analogies to Mario games are pretty absurd.


I would call an intentional game design solution that lets you get hit by melee mobs from over half a screen distance away, absurd.


DONT WORRY GUYS ITS COOL, WE LIKE THIS, THIS IS HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED

http://imgur.com/J5L3y
http://imgur.com/4UcaS
http://imgur.com/r7jMZ
http://imgur.com/6dPzS

(yes the zombie way off to the right is the one hitting me)

edit: itd be fine if it were something like, a couple feet of grace for the monsters, but ANYTHING no matter what is just stupid
Edited by D3BETA on 4/11/2012 3:38 PM PDT
04/11/2012 03:02 PMPosted by D3BETA
Also, who are you to say what is fun? Maybe there are a lot of people that enjoy dodging in and out of enemies and, you know, actually using tactics and precision while taking on enemies instead of just relying on sticky targeting and popping all their cooldown abilities when surrounded. Thanks for disregarding the more hardcore part of the playerbase once again...


They're the professionals who are paid to design and create the game. Therefore they get to dictate what is "fun" in the context of their game and how they want it to be played.


Do you know where the money they are being paid comes from?
Well, I'll tell you: consumers.

That's it.
100 Draenei Mage
9875
Posts: 3,544
The only reason i don't care is because it was this way in D2, and i still had fun and killed a lot of !@#$. Enough said.
Edited by Switch on 4/11/2012 3:17 PM PDT
90 Worgen Mage
2235
Posts: 34
04/11/2012 03:13 PMPosted by D3BETA


I would call an intentional game design solution that lets you get hit by melee mobs from over half a screen distance away, absurd.


DONT WORRY GUYS ITS COOL, WE LIKE THIS, THIS IS HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED

http://imgur.com/J5L3y
http://imgur.com/4UcaS
http://imgur.com/r7jMZ
http://imgur.com/6dPzS

(yes the zombie way off to the right is the one hitting me)


Because you were in melee range of it when the hit was registered.
Posts: 3,252
I would call an intentional game design solution that lets you get hit by melee mobs from over half a screen distance away, absurd.


DONT WORRY GUYS ITS COOL, WE LIKE THIS, THIS IS HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED

http://imgur.com/J5L3y
http://imgur.com/4UcaS
http://imgur.com/r7jMZ
http://imgur.com/6dPzS

(yes the zombie way off to the right is the one hitting me)


Stop teasing those zombies! It's cruel. Seriously, who does this anyway? Yeah I had the same initial reaction to this. It feels silly to be hit by a zombie from a screen away, but I got over it. I don't try to dodge anymore, I just load skills that let me dodge while staying in melee range, doing more overall dps than your dodge strategy anyway. If anything, the game taught me how to play more effectively. Even if you COULD dodge like you want, it wouldn't be an effective way to play given the skill design.

EDIT: Also some stuff about making skipping content more difficult...it does that too.
Edited by Jim on 4/11/2012 3:22 PM PDT
04/11/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Switch
The only reason i don't care is because it was this way in D2, and i still had fun and killed a lot of !@#$. Enough said.


diablo 2 had a limit to it though, if you were far enough away, it would register as the attack missing, now that isnt the case

http://imgur.com/J5L3y
http://imgur.com/4UcaS
http://imgur.com/r7jMZ
http://imgur.com/6dPzS
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