Diablo® III

Monster melee attack range

04/11/2012 05:42 PMPosted by D3BETA
As for you Honor, I can see from the Screenshots that you are getting hit from alot further away than me but for me, the damage shows up right as I step away. Could be a server side thing. My friend complains to me that she is stuck as soon as a hulk knocks her back but on my screen, she is already knocked back and isnt actually stuck.


my latency isnt bad, (notice its green) it was just i was testing this very thing with those screenshots. i was running in range and instantly running out to see how far away i could get with an attack done, and if the attack would still hit, which it did

and i recall testing this at around 70 latency


Yeah, the mechanics behind this have already been explained lol.
My experience with ARPG's, albeit fairly limited, has me comfortable with this mechanic. If we're going to be able to dodge attacks like the OP (and others here) want, I say program the monsters to time their attacks based on our movement. Then what? Why give the player such a boring and easy advantage? It would be boring to dodge auto attacks from every enemy in this type of game. I promise.


ive played path of exile, which has the exact opposite philosophy (and torchlight 1 for that matter)

and i found it very fun to go around juking enemies melee attacks, it felt very smooth, and i felt pro dodging them. however its not easy, and something you really need to concentrate on to get anywhere with. it by no means makes melee useless

for the record, path of exile is a worse game than diablo 3 in every other way but this, and the hitboxes being much better

Wouldnt that system have a weird animation and cause people to not be able to time dodge-able hits correctly? If I'm understanding what you are saying, the animation would start before the player actually enters any range. Going from your example and lets say 5 feet is the melee hit: The attack animation would start 4 seconds ahead of the actual strike, say when you are 10 feet away and when you get to 5feet, the attack actually lands?(Assuming it takes 4 seconds to get to the mob) Unless I'm misunderstanding wouldnt that cause more confusion and alot more arm waving? Would cause players to not know when they are actually getting attack from simple idle/chasing you animation.

As for you Honor, I can see from the Screenshots that you are getting hit from alot further away than me but for me, the damage shows up right as I step away. Could be a server side thing. My friend complains to me that she is stuck as soon as a hulk knocks her back but on my screen, she is already knocked back and isnt actually stuck.


Well with zombies it would be more like 4 seconds to pull back their arms and ready for an attack then when you enter range they actually attack. But as you pointed out it could look weird if a zombie pulls back to fight but you never come. A more easily understood example would be an enemy with a sword. They would for example spend 4 seconds lifting it off the ground or unsheathing it and placing it in postition for a quick 1 second swing.
my latency isnt bad, (notice its green) it was just i was testing this very thing with those screenshots. i was running in range and instantly running out to see how far away i could get with an attack done, and if the attack would still hit, which it did

and i recall testing this at around 70 latency


Yeah, the mechanics behind this have already been explained lol.


yes i understand whats going on behind the scenes, i simply think there should be a logical cutoff point (tho i personally think that point should be where the melee strike ends)

but by blizzs philosophy behind this design, id say keep it where diablo 2 had it, anything beyond (in game) a couple feet of leeway would be a miss
Edited by D3BETA on 4/11/2012 5:50 PM PDT
Posts: 3,566
Wow, this will be the topic for the usual whiners this week it seems.

/sigh
Posts: 324
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Currently I'd like to see this upped even further. "marine micro" kiting in this game is insanely strong. (i.e.: shift shoot, left click away, shift shoot, etc.)

I've actually done a few runthroughs on my demon hunter where I literally never got hit once save for teleporters and the skeleton king. (even then I could time some abilities like impale and get lucky timed stuns right when they tele'd next to me. )

Maybe it will be different later on in different difficulties! We'll see. But if my movement control still proves to be just as effective, I can't see myself building defensive stats on my demon hunter. Potentially movespeed? But that would be it.
Posts: 282
I have noticed this issue since I started playing beta. You just get hit by monster's melee attack when you are obvious out of their range. I don't know whether it's a latency issue, or intentional design, or bug?

I made a detailed video to how obvious this issue is. It's quite clear and obvious. But, it seems like it depends on the type of monsters. I got hit by zombie and skeleton way out of range, but I can actually dodge most of the attacks from Grotesque.

Watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW3VZs3gx2A

Latency? Intentional design? Or bug?

---------------------------------------------------------
Here is another video made by someone to show a comparison of this issue between D3, D2, and Torchlight.

Many people have reported this issue long ago, any answers?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3881920525

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3278902529

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?812552-Diablo-3-Beta-HIT-LAG-it-s-TERRIBLE-(

This guy is just reporting an issue, like a good beta tester. What idiot reported this post?
Posts: 266
i strongly dislike this aspect of the game, please make monster attacks more like D2. there was nothing wrong with that
It's actually not an issue.
I remember watching a gameplay video on Path of Exile in which the player could simply run past anything and never be trapped by enemies.

I think this is great that melee enemies can land a hit easier to make running past everything a little harder.

Inferno is really going to be a challenge knowing that melee enemies have an extended reach in order to attack you with.


also note that inferno has zero purpose to running past enemies. there is no point whatsoever to ever not kill an enemy in inferno
Posts: 24


Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Two problems need reconciliation here.

First, if the intention is to lower the required level of manual dexterity in the game by preventing players from exercising good reaction times, and dare I say, skill, to dodge attacks, why then do you include a number of character-specific skills that are centred around this same manual dodging mechanic, such as the DH's vault skill? This is confusing.

Secondly and perhaps most importantly, how do you think players will feel about being hit and killed 15 yards away from a melee opponent in multiplayer? I think the words "not fun" will be used in the same sentence combined with a number of creative expletives.
04/11/2012 04:05 PMPosted by D3BETA
Well, typically ranged and spellcasters trade distance fighting with less armor. But with D3 they've blurred those lines so all classes alike can don IMPERIAL HEAVY PLATE MAIL OF GRAND DEFENSE! So I guess they had to bug the game out so it levels the playing field making the ranged fighters more balanced.


... Except the two naturally melee-ish classes get 30% damage reduction off the top ..... leaving many caster builds getting hit significantly harder by melee attacks.
Posts: 675
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.

Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Yet ultralisks attacks in Starcraft 2 STILL (after nearly 2 years) do no damage to a unit running away at a certain speed. Inconsistency is inconsistent.
+1 this needs to be fixed.... it wasn't like this in D2 neither should it in d3
04/11/2012 06:44 PMPosted by D3BETA
Well, typically ranged and spellcasters trade distance fighting with less armor. But with D3 they've blurred those lines so all classes alike can don IMPERIAL HEAVY PLATE MAIL OF GRAND DEFENSE! So I guess they had to bug the game out so it levels the playing field making the ranged fighters more balanced.


... Except the two naturally melee-ish classes get 30% damage reduction off the top ..... leaving many caster builds getting hit significantly harder by melee attacks.


Are you forgetting the fact that the Barbarian and Monk need that damage reduction because they are in the thick of it? WD, wiz, and DH are all ranged attacks or casters. It is inherently easier to kite with them and like someone already said, the 30% damage reduction, for barb and monk, is akin to the damage prevention you would get from kiting.


Also think about just running past enemies to rush through an area and never being hit. Anyone looking to rush would love it! Which is why it's not a good idea from a design perspective. :) It's not something we'll be changing.


Two problems need reconciliation here.

First, if the intention is to lower the required level of manual dexterity in the game by preventing players from exercising good reaction times, and dare I say, skill, to dodge attacks, why then do you include a number of character-specific skills that are centred around this same manual dodging mechanic, such as the DH's vault skill? This is confusing.


You are assuming this system doesn't allow you to exercise good reaction times and takes less skill in general. Both arguments are invalid. You can still kite away from monsters, draw off enemies to bash one on one, the same things you would be doing otherwise. It takes a different level of focus and skill, different variables to consider and in it's own ways, difficulties, knowing you will get hit by a mob once you close the distance on it.

Is there something wrong with them making a skill that allows you to vault away from mobs? I don't quite catch your point. It seems you are trying to make an argument of consistency but... it's a skill. They're supposed to allow you to do things you can't normally do.


Secondly and perhaps most importantly, how do you think players will feel about being hit and killed 15 yards away from a melee opponent in multiplayer? I think the words "not fun" will be used in the same sentence combined with a number of creative expletives.


How will they die 15 yards away? The completion of one melee attack while you dodge, or kite away, is not the end of the world. You are acting as if melee characters get some sort of crazy range on their attacks when it's simply not true. They are only hitting you for what you were in range for. If you had it your way, melee characters would never hit anything in multiplayer because they would be kited and dodged. Sorry bub. I don't share your same view point.
Posts: 17
I agree that this mechanic is very noticeable and I would like to see it changed.

I see this mechanic in many games already when a character is moving very fast across enemy fire, but Diablo 3's presentation of this is very poor.

I suggest a faster animation and better timing for when your character gets hit.

Even having the monster perform constant attacks when your character moves close would make the presentation be more sensible!
Posts: 41
i am pretty sure this happens in diablo 2 as well
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