Diablo® III

Principles of Build Design

@Fifth
I find a lot of peoples builds have no certain ..'goal'. A lot of players are picking up Rapid Fire as a main source of damage. Is this because RF-WF is available early in the game? or do they actually genuinely believe the skill is good?

When designing a build you have to weigh whether you are burst or sustain DPS. Are you mobile or stationary? AoE or Single Target? Being a Jack of all Trades makes you lack in nothing... and more importantly everything. Players need to find a balance towards a certain goal to actually get something out of this so called 'balance'.


Being specialized in PVP might be good, but this isn't really a PVP thread.

Being specialized in PVM makes you weak. Synergy among skills is much more important than being good at just AOE vs single target, or other 'specializations'. Mobility is important, but obviously you don't have to form your entire build around it unless you want to. The concept of 'burst' vs 'sustained' is, I feel, not very useful in this game.

This isn't an MMO; you don't have a tank and healer and DPS. Everyone is dps and control. Having a good AOE ability doesn't prevent you from being good at single target, and having a mobility ability doesn't prevent you from taking RF. You won't get a ton of benefit from dedicating all your abilities to one area, in fact most of them will just interfere with each other. Sure, you may opt to take a one more AOE ability than single target, but you're going to have both. If your group comes against a boss, your group can't afford to have you if you're just AOE. Similarly, your group will be overwhelmed in a big encounter vs hundreds of mobs if you are plinking away at single targets.

@Jinx
I wouldn't think of Strafe as an aoe ability. It attacks targets one at a time, very quickly and randomly. It doesn't do any more damage to multiple targets than it does to a single target. You will probably benefit from having an ability which actually damages several targets at once.

Sharpshooter is thought of as weak because aside from the cool crit at the start of a fight, it doesn't offer much. In an ideal situation against a single target with a slow weapon, it might be good. Say your crit rate is 20% in this situation with a swing timer of 1 sec; you would swing an average of 5 times for a crit, giving you 3% x 5 = 15% crit by the end (an estimate; the real math is more difficult as your crit chance would increase with each shot that didn't crit). A weapon that swings twice as often would get half that. AoE pretty much destroys your chances to have a benefit, dividing that number by the number of targets. So you pretty much end up with 3% crit in most situations. Overall, an ability which increases your crit when you don't crit ends up being somewhat counterproductive.
Edited by Tachycardia#1921 on 4/26/2012 11:49 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9900
Posts: 398
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aZYVfg!ecU!ccabYY

I am going for a Crit centric build where Hungering Arrow acts as my AOE through Spray of Teeth. I can see spamming this for hate regen and hopeful lots of aoe through crits.

I have Impale as my execute for a strong finisher with Grievous Wounds for the extra damage on single targets to then move on to the other targets weakened through Spray of Teeth.

Having Archery complements both of these skills nicely.

My other 4 skills are more defensive in nature starting with Caltrops and Hooked Spines. This is my primary slow coupled with Custom Engineering to save Discipline through fewer trap placements, keeps slows up longer to focus on burning down mobs. The final passive skill of Cull the Weak plays into this as well with increased damage on slowed mobs.

If I am overrun Evasive Fire is not only another decent hatred generator, but really more for the escape to reposition after dropping Caltrops again. The damage while escaping is nice and using the Displace rune gives enough distance to reset the fight.

Shadow Protection with Gloom is a great life tap and damage reducer that can either be used when taking heavy damage or offensively if you are regenerating health at a safe distance. This versatility makes it a great skill to use while being rushed. Pop it, then Caltrops, then Evasive Fire and you have escaped with little damage taken and some health regen in the process.

Finally, it seems that Prep is a great Disc regen on CD that can also act as a desperate health regen when using the Battle Scars rune. Even if you are just using this on CD to regen Discipline between this and Shadow Protection you should be constantly topped off.

The big question I have is if the aoe from Spray of Teeth is enough. With the slows and escapes I think it would be but time will tell. The extra damage from Cull the Weak should help in this regard as all targets being focused should be slowed
Reply Quote
Posts: 40
My point was more about where I see people making builds that have no purpose. Why do they run 4 attack skills? 2 single targets and 2 Aoes, 1 Generator, 1 mobility or 3 AoE and 1 single target, 1 Generator, and 1 mobility or heck even any of those WITHOUT a Generator? This is simply just trying to stack damage when its not possible too because we are now limited to class mechanics instead of a mana pot spammable Mana pool. They can claim that because each of those AoE skills have different properties(effect status/range/dmg type/area/whatever) that they can all be useful in 1 or 2 areas of a map. This can be true.. but then you can easily swap out one AoE skill into another at a certain checkpoint where you know the terrain may limit your current AoE.

There is no need to carry 3-4 attack skills around with you wherever you go. Using 3 different types of AoEs in a battle is basically the same as using 1 AoE 3 times. This is pointless because they are only gimping themselves on the possible overall DPS/survivability that they could have by swapping out 1-2 of those attack skills into 2 extra Utility skills that aid the other skills you have. Therefore you are actually using 4/6 or 5/6 or even 6/6 abilities available during a fight and using them more often.

If we had cooldowns on a lot of our damage and utility skills it would be a different matter.
Reply Quote
Posts: 12
I wouldn't think of Strafe as an aoe ability. It attacks targets one at a time, very quickly and randomly. It doesn't do any more damage to multiple targets than it does to a single target. You will probably benefit from having an ability which actually damages several targets at once.

Sharpshooter is thought of as weak because aside from the cool crit at the start of a fight, it doesn't offer much. In an ideal situation against a single target with a slow weapon, it might be good. Say your crit rate is 20% in this situation with a swing timer of 1 sec; you would swing an average of 5 times for a crit, giving you 3% x 5 = 15% crit by the end (an estimate; the real math is more difficult as your crit chance would increase with each shot that didn't crit). A weapon that swings twice as often would get half that. AoE pretty much destroys your chances to have a benefit, dividing that number by the number of targets. So you pretty much end up with 3% crit in most situations. Overall, an ability which increases your crit when you don't crit ends up being somewhat counterproductive.


Thanks for the input! I see your point about Strafe not really being an AoE ability. I guess it's back to the drawing board for my DH. Rocket builds interest me so perhaps I'll go that route.

As far as Sharpshooter goes, I agree that the passive basically ends up being a flat +3% crit chance when AoE'ing most of the time (which is an underwhelming bonus for a passive at best), but I perceive the boost it gives to your alpha strike on a mob to be a pretty valuable benefit.

I frequently found myself running for 5-10 sec (translates to +15-30% crit chance) between packs in the open beta, and in my head I figured Sharpshooter would give me a reasonably good chance of critting on the first 1-2 shots at each fresh group (as the bonus doesn't reset until 1 sec after a successful crit).

I also assumed this 1 sec reset window would allow for every hit of a true AoE ability like Multishot to benefit from the bonus crit chance. Even if the enemy first struck by the AoE suffers a critical hit, the accumulated bonus from Sharpshooter should still linger and continue to boost the crit chance of every other hit from that AoE, so long as they land within a second of that first crit, right? If the answer to that question is yes, and you have to travel long enough (doubling back after a dead end, for example), you might even occasionally get to fire off a Multishot where every enemy hit is practically guaranteed to suffer a crit! Maybe I'm overvaluing this aspect of the passive, but it seems like all this would boost overall kill speed by a not inconsiderable amount.

As you mentioned in your post, I agree that Sharpshooter appears to be good in single target situations where constant crits are less likely. When those inevitable unlucky no-crit streaks come, Sharpshooter acts to help end it ASAP. The math for this is definitely far beyond me, but it seems likely to me that (unless you crit at least once nearly every second) in boss fights, Sharpshooter would end up averaging out to be much better than just a +3% crit chance.

TL;DR: Sharpshooter might be worthwhile in boosting alpha strike AoE's and is good in single target fights. Sucks for AoE spam after the alpha strike.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,591
04/26/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Jinx
I also assumed this 1 sec reset window would allow for every hit of a true AoE ability like Multishot to benefit from the bonus crit chance. Even if the enemy first struck by the AoE suffers a critical hit, the accumulated bonus from Sharpshooter should still linger and continue to boost the crit chance of every other hit from that AoE, so long as they land within a second of that first crit, right? If the answer to that question is yes, and you have to travel long enough (doubling back after a dead end, for example), you might even occasionally get to fire off a Multishot where every enemy hit is practically guaranteed to suffer a crit! Maybe I'm overvaluing this aspect of the passive, but it seems like all this would boost overall kill speed by a not inconsiderable amount.


The fact that it ends 1 second after your crit also means that you could get 2 or 3 strikes off before you lose the buff. If your attack speed is over 1.00, you will definitely get at least 2. The third depends on how the game calculates things. If it calculates crit chance at the point of using the ability, it's feasible you could get three. You shoot off the first 1 and you have some lag time before it hits the target and actually crits which is when the 1 second timer starts. By that time you could have gotten your third attack off which, at the point it leaves your hands still has the 100% crit chance even if that dissapears mid-air. That would reset the passive again, but a crit is a crit.

I'm not so sure I like it even for single target even though. If you're just using it to end a drought of crits, then basically you've spent 10 seconds sitting there attacking a boss and the only benefit you got is 1 more crit out of it. After that it's back to square 1.

I just don't see how Sharpshooter beats out any other damage increases personally. 15% damage with bows on Archery is great and even a constant 10% crit from hizzys will probably provide you with a better constant damage increase over the long-run. Especially if you're AoEing or using Rapid Fire. And if you've made a crit-based build, chances are you're going for lots of crit on your gear. So if you already have something like 20% crit or better and an APS of at least 2.00, you're going to be critting so often that it doesn't matter making it basically the 3% passive increase. Even in a build where spells benefit from critting, 3% crit is not going to outweigh a straight damage increase from Archery, Cull the Weak, or Steady Aim. I'll give that it does give you a good first jump on some mobs, but I don't know if that's worth the downsides of it. Especially because Diablo is a fast-paced game based on constantly killing monsters, especially large groups of them at a time. It's not like WoW where you have time between pulls and encounters for it to charge up. Because of that, I'm probably sticking with those 3 as my damage increasing passives.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,591
They can claim that because each of those AoE skills have different properties(effect status/range/dmg type/area/whatever) that they can all be useful in 1 or 2 areas of a map. This can be true.. but then you can easily swap out one AoE skill into another at a certain checkpoint where you know the terrain may limit your current AoE.


Except the cooldown for switching out spells is 15 seconds past normal mode so you don't want to sit there literally every pull waiting for your cooldown to come off just so you can kill a mob a little faster. Also the Nephalem valor buff was designed to counter-act this very thing. Once you hit level 60 you get the Nephalem buff whenever you kill a rare/elite mob. The buff makes it so you have extra MF/GF on normal packs and bosses drop extra loot as well. It goes away if you exit the game or switch out any spells or runes.

So some people just want to pick 1 or 2 defensive abilities because that's all they feel they would need. They then can pick AoE and single-target variants in the same build to make sure they'll have the right spell for as many situations as possible.
Reply Quote
9 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Posts: 27
For those of you that have yet to play the beta... Spoiler alert. When we talk about multi-shot and suppression and we talk about the number of monsters it takes to make it worthwhile (compared to the old cost of multishot/prep), it is a moot point. If we are fighting a group of monsters 4 - 8, we aren't going to be using our heavy AOE attacks regardless the cost (unless they were free). However, playing the beta, I cant tell you how many 26+ monster kills for combo experience or 15+ monster kills for x amount of bonus experience I get. Yes that's right, when you kill pig packs of monsters you get a popup on your screen that says X amount of monsters killed + X amount of XP... Blizz encourages Big group killing. This is Diablo, there are so many monsters at once, the few times that there are less than 10 is irrelevant. I'm telling you this skill will be completely fine coupled together.

I mean really if there is only 4 monsters, why not pull them to the other pack of 4, pull them to the other pack of 4 and mow all them down together. (I hate to use a 'cow' reference but it's the same idea on the strategy works). In inferno monsters are going to be super fast, it's going to be easy to make "enough" of a group to spam multi/prep.

Mark my word, every last one of us will at some point be using multi/prep as our staple AOE (And a good many of us will think any other AOE is completely inferior from any angle as AOE's go).
Edited by CDubbz31#1242 on 4/26/2012 6:15 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,591
Most of the time you get those 26+ kill combos it's because you entered a room or a hallway where mobs were close because you can clean up one mob and then tag another one before the timer runs out. Even in those situations you still wouldn't have hit much more than 5-10 mobs with an AoE spell. They were close, but not that close.
Reply Quote
9 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Posts: 27
04/26/2012 07:06 PMPosted by LtShaft
Most of the time you get those 26+ kill combos it's because you entered a room or a hallway where mobs were close because you can clean up one mob and then tag another one before the timer runs out. Even in those situations you still wouldn't have hit much more than 5-10 mobs with an AoE spell. They were close, but not that close.


Your making assumptions. Chak is cheap and very spammable, but a bad habit is a bad habit, I pull entire corridors when it's possible and clear it, I don't waste time killing packs of 5-10 as quickly as I can when I can vault pull 25+ and stop for 3 seconds to kill them. Come on, in d2 did you do this, no you pulled as many as you could and killed. The same strategy applies here. Look, almost any combo is going to be doable, some will be superior than others... multishot with suppression coupled with prep/punishment is going to be hands down the best AOE the DH has that is sustainable.

Except the cooldown for switching out spells is 15 seconds past normal mode so you don't want to sit there literally every pull waiting for your cooldown to come off just so you can kill a mob a little faster. Also the Nephalem valor buff was designed to counter-act this very thing. Once you hit level 60 you get the Nephalem buff whenever you kill a rare/elite mob. The buff makes it so you have extra MF/GF on normal packs and bosses drop extra loot as well. It goes away if you exit the game or switch out any spells or runes.

So some people just want to pick 1 or 2 defensive abilities because that's all they feel they would need. They then can pick AoE and single-target variants in the same build to make sure they'll have the right spell for as many situations as possible.


I 100% agree with everything here, some of the best points in this thread. With DH, you want to get away with as few defensive abilities as possible so you can handle any situation. That said, you can setup yourself unbalanced for "clearing" situations and then at events you can swap in your boss killers if need be.
Edited by CDubbz31#1242 on 4/26/2012 9:42 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,591
Your making assumptions. Chak is cheap and very spammable, but a bad habit is a bad habit, I pull entire corridors when it's possible and clear it, I don't waste time killing packs of 5-10 as quickly as I can when I can vault pull 25+ and stop for 3 seconds to kill them. Come on, in d2 did you do this, no you pulled as many as you could and killed. The same strategy applies here. Look, almost any combo is going to be doable, some will be superior than others... multishot with suppression coupled with prep/punishment is going to be hands down the best AOE the DH has that is sustainable.


Most of the time I didn't in D2 to be honest lol. Played Open B-net so I always had it set on /players8. Made it hard to kill gigantic mobs :D But yes I did round up as many as I could handle. I still think killing 5-10 people at a time is still efficient enough for multi-shot anyways though. Maybe not quite to go without a generator, but pretty damn good.
Reply Quote
Posts: 18
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aZQhgY!eVU!aYaZYc

Hi guys. I know this build isn't quite following the "guidelines" for dh builds. But the one thing that really pwns any ranged hero hard is big, tough packs of monsters that:
1. hit like trucks
2. move super duper fast
3. snares are pretty much negligible (unless its stuns or immobilizations)
4. cannot hope to see/kill them before they reach you (like stygian dolls in d2)
5. unkiteable
6. surrounded due to shock of movement speed/ambush

Think stygian dolls with the durability of Minion of Destruction (last wave of Baal's summon)
And most importantly, they are rare/champions/etc.

So here is my build as a way to survive those encounters and I made this build in the desire to solo inferno as a DH.

This is all hypothetically speaking, but if such mobs exist that DHs cannot hope to kill before they reach us, and caltrop+vault combos dont do us justice in creating any distance.. we need some measures to account for monsters that are literally in our grill.

So please, give me the charity of the assumption that such mobs will exist in inferno and that soloing inferno as a DH should be possible.

So now I will explain the skills chosen.

1. Hungering Arrow
-hatred generator
-instant dmg when all hatred is used up (rune is still up for debate)
2. Impale (Awareness)
-hatred spender
-instant dmg w/ aoe (to help boost up the life steal)
-also.. the key to these situations is to take one down at a time ASAP
-but have to keep in mind that the aoe dmg = huger boost in life steal
3. Multishot (Fire at Will)
-hatred spender
-obviously if you can, you want to avoid close-ranged combat
-this appeals to me the most as spammable w/ good aoe dmg
-can be swapped for other aoe or runes
-main use for everything else outside of forced close-ranged combat
4. Fan of Knives (Retaliate)
-hatred spender w/ 10s CD
-instant dmg w/ insane 464% dmg boost (assuming you will get hit)
-works in conjunction w/ numbing traps (25% dmg reduc from enemy attk)
5. Shadow Power (Gloom)
-life steal w/ 65% dmg reduc
-hopefully makes tanking truck hitting mobs possible
6. Caltrops (Bait the Trap)
-10% extra crit
-main use isnt the snare b/c that defeats the purpose of this build
-makes sure numbing trap is always on the enemy (b/c FoK has CD)
1. Archery
-huge passive dmg boost
2. Numbing Traps
-reducing 25% of enemy's gigantic dmg
-should always be on (b/c of caltrops)
3. Custom Engineering
-rids the annoyance of recasting caltrops in a single fight
-i think every spell used is precious in these dangerous situations
-every moment of not dmging enemy = no life steal = death
-the only non dmging spell that should be recasted is shadow power

So yea, the point is to tank the enemies via life steal & dmg reduc. Multishot and hungering arrow are mainly just ways to kill all the rest of the stuff at range which should be 99% of the game.. hopefully.. I didnt include rain of vengeance simply b/c i dont know how powerful it will be.. and this build still needs a way to get through the rest of the game which monsters should be killed at range..

Hopefully you guys like the idea/inspiration behind this build. Please criticize if see fit. But most importantly, I really hope this brings a new perspective and new ideas for DH builds in general. Thanks.
Edited by sojoo#1343 on 4/27/2012 2:03 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Hunter
16140
Posts: 198
@sojoo

I really like the build and the idea behind it. I think this is one area that is going to trip alot of DH players up at first. Mobs that hit like trucks that can't be kited. Numbing Traps stacked with Gloom is pretty damn awesome. I guess we just need to wait and see what Life Steal is going to look like on end game gear.
Reply Quote
Posts: 567
After playing the open beta for a bit, getting what I could from it, and now looking at the mostly updated stuff, this is what I've come up with:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRicgj!beh!cZYbYY

Main Skills

1. Evasive Fire (Surge) - Most people use it for the backflip, and I will as well, but I like that it also changes the damage to Lightning. Might make it less forceful on Lightning resistant mobs, but will definitely help against all other mobs, especially ones that might have higher armor and physical resistance. Plus, the Discipline reduction is a big help and means I won't have to worry about it eating up spare Discipline if I trigger multiple backflips.

2. Elemental Arrow (Frost Arrow) - Surprised I haven't seen this used too much, but unless they've changed it, this shot should still pierce naturally, correct? If so, then aligned with the Frost Arrow rune, it will act sort like Freezing Arrow from D2, at least for the first hit...in a way. Same low Hatred cost as Chakram, much easier to aim, has a slowing effect, solid damage, and offers yet another element to choose should you come across high-armored targets. Seems to be quite good for some CC and switching between single/multiple targets as needed.

3. Strafe (Rocket Storm) - OK, first off...need some clarification here. For those who have played with Strafe...if there is only one viable target in the vicinity, will all of the shots fired by Strafe focus on that target? If so, how many shots per second on average did you get? This is what is concerning me, because I never could find a straight answer on it, and it will be helpful to know. If the ability allows for multiple hits on a single target, then I see this as being quite a nice medium-sized/single target attack, especially with the movement still allowed while firing. Rocket Storm is obviously there for synergy with the Ballistics talent.

4. Rapid Fire (Fire Support) - Played around with this A LOT during the beta to test it out, and while it starts off a little slow, once I picked up higher damage weapons this skill really took off. Not much else to say about it other than adding in the Fire Support rune will help boost its power up even more, although I am also considering an alternative to it in terms of rune effects and passives, but that will be discussed later on. While I know I have to stand still to channel, I didn't find it to be too detrimental to my health, but of course that can change on higher difficulties, but for now I like this very much as a strong single target and small group attack.

5. Shadow Power (Gloom) - One thing I have noticed is that no matter what game I've played with a ranged class, there will always be times when something slips by and starts smashing you in the face. Now, not sure if the Gloom rune will overwrite the life leech effect of Shadow Power, or be added onto it (hoping it's added on), but even if it isn't, that 65% damage reduction can be a very, VERY nice emergency WTF button to press and allow me to either Strafe out of the way, get off Elemental Arrow to slow down whatever is hitting me, etc, etc. Or, just buckle down and 'tank' the damage for those few precious seconds if the target is already weakened enough. In any case, this is a nice defensive measure that I'll keep handy...just in case.

6. Marked For Death (Mortal Enemy) - Since this build is using two channeled attacks, every little bit of Hatred regen I can get will help, and this is no exception. Add on the extra damage from MFD and if it acts similar to Hunter's Mark from WoW in terms of application, then it can be applied from afar even before you cross enemy visual/aggro range, and gives you that extra punch against a particular target.

Passive Skills

1. Vengeance - Extra Hatred is always nice, and I like the Hatred and Discipline regen from healing from health globes...more explained on that down below. Twenty five hatred doesn't seem like much, but again, every little bit helps when you're using channeled attacks.

2. Archery - Might seem like boring bonuses, but they're all solid and I wouldn't pass them up, especially since you get something nice for whatever weapon you decide to settle on in the end.

3. Ballistics - Since Strafe and Rapid Fire are runed for rockets, the extra 50% (and I'm going on the assumption it's multiplicative) will help, even more so in Strafe's case. Of course, that depends on how the rune works with Strafe if it will fire off one homing rocket per each normal shot, or whatever...really wish Blizzard would make these things a bit more details in that regard. >< In any case, this is a solid choice IMHO for this build.

(continued due to character limit)
Edited by Tanakeah#1220 on 4/27/2012 8:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 567
Build Goals

This build is more designed for GROUP PLAY, but IMHO it can still work for solo play well enough. I see people not liking Vengeance too much, though I think it has its merits, especially when playing in a group. The thing about the passive is that it reads "When you are healed by a health globe"...it doesn't say ANYTHING about YOU being the one to pick up the globe. I even saw this during the beta when I'd be channeling Rapid Fire, my friend would pick up a globe in melee (played a Barbarian) and I'd watch my steadily dropping Hatred spike a little, even more so when he picked up three globes in a row that were around because he needed them. This can also work quite well with Strafe since you can still move while attacking, pick up globes, and continue shooting because you're gaining Hatred from them, and this is something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread...or could've missed it, but I don't recall.

Now, with that said, there are a few potential changes I could see to this build if one wanted to go more solo but keep similar skills. Could be something like this:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRicgj!Yec!cZZZYY

Rapid Fire with the Web Shot rune means you can potentially spray a group of enemies with a constant stream of slowing shots, which means you can have more up-time on the Steady Aim passive, and Cull The Weak will give you more damage since enemies will constantly be slowed so long as you're shooting them. CTW will also work nicely with Elemental Arrow (FA) spam because of its slow and low Hatred cost. Strafe has the Drifting Shadow rune so you can run at normal speed while firing away, which can help maintain distance for Steady Aim. Everything else about the build remains the same, but again, this one might be potentially better for pure solo play instead of the more rocket-focused build posted earlier.

In any case, the idea is to have a mix of single and multi-target attacks with more focus on channeled shots and maintaining distance for both solo and group play. The first build, again, is more for the group play where you can stand back a bit and unload while the second build is to try for the same thing in solo play where enemies are more inclined to target you, even past your hireling and you need to keep on your toes.
Reply Quote
Posts: 113
High Resource Generation Build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#QcTdjV!YXe!bbZZYZ

I've been playing around with this build. The goal is to not need a hatred generator because you're passively generating it, or generating it indirectly through Discipline regeneration. It would take a fair bit of itemization to fine tune, but you'd want to have as little attack speed as possible (2H-Xbox+Quiver most likely) and a high crit chance.

The high crit chance would help you take advantage of Archery for 2HX, but more importantly it would allow Rapid Fire to generate Discipline faster.

With a 2HX+Quiver your base attack speed will be just over 1.2, which means Rapid Fire will need 12 Hatred/sec to be sustainable. Preparation works out to 5hps + 3hps from bat + 4hps baseline = 11h/s.

You could swap out Night Stalker for Vengeance and increase Prep to 6hps bringing you up to 12h/s, but you'd probably fall short a little here and there and not have breathing room to use vault when you need to, if you swapped out Multishot for an AoE Hate generator you'd probably be fine here, but would go against the core purpose of the build :)

So the tricky part is how Night Stalker will work with Rapid Fire Crits. Rapid Fire shoots at 6x your normal speed, so if as in this example your AS is 1.2. You're doing 5 attacks a second. Prep/Punish (without Vengeance) means 1 Discipline = 5 Hatred, so 1 Crit = 5 hatred. 1 Crit/sec would increase your hatred by 5hps. At 5 attacks a second, if Rapid Fire gets full benefit from Night Stalker, you'd only need 20% crit to kick your hate gen up to 16hps. So 20% crit -> 5hps(16), 40% crit -> 10hps(21), etc...

Once you hit a certain point you don't have to worry as much about keeping AS low, or you could eventually swap out the bat. This isn't even considering Marked For Death, it's really just there for sustained single target, but might not be necessary and you could replace it with some sorely lacking CC.

Also the vault rune is just... whatever. None of them jump out at me, so I figured it could be used for a clutch stun to interrupt something if you really needed to. In any case, it's a build that should be effective with a relatively low amount of crit then slowly free you up to drop some of the hate gen for utility as you get more crit.

Granted, Rapid Fire seems to have diminished affects from on-hit and I'm not sure the exact numbers are known, so it'll probably be less.

If Rapid Fire values aren't diminished then at around 30% crit you could dual-wield 1HX (baselines around 1.8-1.9 AS), but I imagine they will be to a degree so that crit value might end up becoming too high to attain, so you're limited on weapons, but you'll also get more from M4D.

Like I said, very itemization dependent, but gives you unlimited AoE from Multishot and unlimited focused fire from Rapid Fire, with customizability as you attain gear milestones.
Reply Quote
@Fifth
Yeah, in general having too many attacks skills is bad, since you only have so much time and hate.

@Ware
For those of you that have yet to play the beta... Spoiler alert. When we talk about multi-shot and suppression and we talk about the number of monsters it takes to make it worthwhile (compared to the old cost of multishot/prep), it is a moot point. If we are fighting a group of monsters 4 - 8, we aren't going to be using our heavy AOE attacks regardless the cost (unless they were free). However, playing the beta, I cant tell you how many 26+ monster kills for combo experience or 15+ monster kills for x amount of bonus experience I get. Yes that's right, when you kill pig packs of monsters you get a popup on your screen that says X amount of monsters killed + X amount of XP... Blizz encourages Big group killing. This is Diablo, there are so many monsters at once, the few times that there are less than 10 is irrelevant. I'm telling you this skill will be completely fine coupled together.

I mean really if there is only 4 monsters, why not pull them to the other pack of 4, pull them to the other pack of 4 and mow all them down together. (I hate to use a 'cow' reference but it's the same idea on the strategy works). In inferno monsters are going to be super fast, it's going to be easy to make "enough" of a group to spam multi/prep.

Mark my word, every last one of us will at some point be using multi/prep as our staple AOE (And a good many of us will think any other AOE is completely inferior from any angle as AOE's go).


I really have to disagree with a lot in this thread.

First of all, while there are plenty of situations with large numbers of mobs, there are also plenty with groups of less than 8. The large groups stick out in your mind exactly because there are messages popping up with kill numbers; the smaller groups don't. WHile it's certainly important to have abilities to fight massive groups, it's also important to be able to fight smaller ones.

I think a lot of your assessment is based on the assumption that whatever content is going to matter is going to be content that you can just sail through and pull as many mobs as you want. I, on the other hand, think that the content that will matter will require more effort than that. I think that intentionally pulling several groups will get you killed in higher difficulties. I'm also aiming towards making use of the Nephalem buff, thus not relying on changing skills a lot. I think it's most useful to design a build that doesn't assume the game will be easy all the way through.

Also while i think multi + prep will be pretty awesome, it's not the only AOE worth using. Multi- Fire at Will (what did WIll ever do to deserve this?!?!?) is a pretty good skill for MS that doesn't require another ability to support it directly. Cluster might be better vs. certain spreads. Spike Trap- Scatter is more damage, though again the spread isn't as good. MS is certainly good but not the only option.
Edited by Tachycardia#1921 on 4/30/2012 8:00 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]