Diablo® III

tank/debuffer build

Posts: 143
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WdXiTh!dZU!ZcbZcc

Ideally with this build, you'll be using crippling wave (concussion) and dashing strike (blinding speed) to leap around the area debuffing mobs while tanking very little damage and getting as many mobs to chase after you as possible. Recasting Mantra of evasion (Backlash) and Breath of heaven (blazing wrath) are your emergency buttons and seven sided strike is your finisher and/or a massive emergency button.

A few things I'm not sure of with the build are the use of breath of heaven (blazing wrath) with this build instead of Serenity and what to use for the 3rd passive.

Since I'm planning on running pretty much with a premade 4 man group consisting of DH, WD, and another, breath of heaven would probably be better overall utility since it would allow me to spot heal allies getting beat up while I take aggro back even though serenity is a better overall emergency button

One with everything will probably be the best 3rd passive for this build with poor gearing. If you can get roughly 50%+ crit chance, sixth sense will probably be the best (as well as switching sweeping wind's rune to cyclone). Transcendance could also be pretty spectacular seeing as you would be spamming dashing strike for a 1550 heal frequently and it turns recasting mantra of evasion into 3.1k heal and additional 15% dodge chance which is especially great seeing as this is a moderate to low spirit usage build. This also might warrant the use Mantra of healing in this scenario depending on how little damage you take due to your mobility. Near death experience is probably the generic safe choice.

Overall, with the base build you should be rocking 50% dodge and 45% enemy damage reduction consistantly (for a total mitigation of 72.5% not including resistances, armor, and slowed attack speed) and peaking at 65% dodge and 45% enemy damage reduction (80.75% total mitigation). If you can hit 50% crit, you can increase this to 89% total mitigation with sixth sense

My mitigation numbers were created by taking % chance to not dodge multiplied by 45% then added to the total chance to dodge. This entails how much damage you would take in comparison to another class/spec as opposed to how hard mobs will hit you.

I will be the first to admit that I'm not the most familiar with new mechanics of this game, especially in regards to my potential spirit generation so if you have any suggestions, let me know.
Edited by Belfast on 4/24/2012 10:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Human Warlock
2750
Posts: 703
I see a few assumptions in this build that I don't think pan out.

The first catch is, stuff like dodge % and damage reduction stack multiplicative fashion, not additive.

So where you are saying that Mantra (15%) + passive (15%) + dashing strike (20%) = 50%, is not really the case. Rather it is (.85)(.85)(.8) = 42.2% chance to dodge. Some math expert can correct me if I'm wrong.

The second catch is uptime of de/buffs.

Being able to keep the dashing strike rune up all the time I think is pretty generous. 25 spirit every 3 seconds is not cheap. If we assume you dash in and immediately start using crippling wave to attack, you should be able to just slightly generate more than 'break even' spirit (with some basic tests I did with crippling wave and two 1.4 attacks/s weapons, you get about 93 crippling waves/minute, so you would need about 2.6 seconds to generate 25 spirit back, assuming no bonus spirit regen from items). Without it you have 27.75% chance to dodge.

The same can be said about the crippling wave rune debuff. The AOE of crippling wave is only melee range. You won't be able to keep it up on nearly all of the monster on screen, unless you are only fighting a few and they are stacked right on top of you.

The good news is, you don't seem to be accounting for Monk's (and barb's) innate 30% damage reduction over other classes.
Reply Quote
Posts: 143
Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense for debuffs to be multiplicative (reduce damage by 20%, then reduce the remaining damage by 20%, then the remaining...) but the whole dodge being multiplicative is fairly unituitive. Your math is correct though assuming a 3 dice roll situation

As per the need to generate 25 spirit every 3 seconds, that was something I greatly considered after making the post last night. Changing dashing strike to the quicksilver rune will really make this build more spirit efficient at the loss of dodge as you proposed.

The premise with using the crippling wave debuff is just to reduce the damage the mobs do while you pull their aggro and run away. I agree that due to its short duration that there is no way to keep it up constantly on everything without using cyclone strike which would put you in more danger than necessary imo.

Also, I was unaware of the innate damage reduction so that really lessens the need for so much dodge to an extent.

Due to your input, I see two ways I think I could go with this.

DW Mitigation build - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WdXiTh!Zd!ZbbZcc
Pretty much the changes I discussed earlier

2H Self Healing build - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UdXiTQ!ZY!cbbZcZ
Loses all dodge chance but you can constantly heal yourself as you sprint around and grab aggro
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,005
Great detail and explaination of your thoughts.

Something to consider for Inferno though.

The devs have stated that in Inferno they needed to sacrifice damage and gear for more defensive abilities and CC.

I notice you don't have any form of CC and your only heal is on a CD. (unless you count your transcendence build)

As a tank/debuffer part of tanking is going to be for you to mitigate how much damage you take.

A skill like Blind or Inner Sanc will accomplish this very thing. Inner Sanc can even be runed to give you a bigger heal than BoH along with CC.

So you could drop BoH and pick up Inner for both a Heal and CC. Or you can squeeze blind in there to help your chances of survival.

I fear that come Inferno, builds with no CC are going to find themselves running and kiting more because you won't have the luxury of standing there fighting in a pack of mobs. Especially if they are champion, mini boss's or final boss fights.
Reply Quote
85 Human Warlock
2750
Posts: 703
I would agree with archangel that one additional defensive/CC skill could be good. I personally think that many monks who don't mind being tank/support will find themselves quickly filling that roll in Inferno groups, at the cost of DPS.

Since you are going to be playing mostly with a premade, I would probably switch out sweeping wind or SSS for one additional defensive cooldown. If we (monks) can really 'tank' effectively in Inferno, I think it will be a huge benefit to groups, especially squishies.

I personally built what I hope will be an extremely tanky self healing monk that I think will be great for setting up great AOE damage with my wizard friend and any other 2 people who might be with us. Especially since this is Diablo, 95% of people are going to want to build maximum damage, and since I don't mind playing support/tank, I think it will work out quite well in groups. Thanks to the skill system, you can always swap out more DPS if you happen to be solo!
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,005
I am like you Dototrum,

my brother and I decided early on that with Diablo, there are no berzerk timers on boss fights. So we can turtle every battle and stack as much healing or defensive skills as we want.

Until we get the gear to slowly ween ourselves from our turtle shell, this is our strategy for facing Inferno.

I may be our tank and even use a shield! But i plan to use as much CC and healing to keep myself and my allies up for as long as possible damage be damned. (^-^)
Reply Quote
Posts: 143
The devs have stated that in Inferno they needed to sacrifice damage and gear for more defensive abilities and CC.

I notice you don't have any form of CC and your only heal is on a CD. (unless you count your transcendence build)

As a tank/debuffer part of tanking is going to be for you to mitigate how much damage you take.

A skill like Blind or Inner Sanc will accomplish this very thing. Inner Sanc can even be runed to give you a bigger heal than BoH along with CC.

So you could drop BoH and pick up Inner for both a Heal and CC. Or you can squeeze blind in there to help your chances of survival.

I fear that come Inferno, builds with no CC are going to find themselves running and kiting more because you won't have the luxury of standing there fighting in a pack of mobs. Especially if they are champion, mini boss's or final boss fights.


This is very interesting to consider. with the original build, I was hoping to get up to enough mitigation that I wouldn't need to rely on a control skill since I would be able to have stable incomming damage with the ability to easily run away when needed.

Also, to pick up a control cd, I would probably drop sweeping wind and resolve as a passive since it appears that stacking too much mitigation through talents is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

With all this in mind, I'm still pretty sure that I want to play a mobile tank and I'm thinking that my barebones build will be http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#Wd..T!d!Zb..c

I think I've come to the conclusion that I either need to see what defensive gear options there will be at end game or to actually try out inferno to get some first hand experience before I deligate the rest of my end game skills. A major thing I'm dying to find out is how Amethysts work when dual wielding two weapons each socketed with one...
Edited by Wex#1232 on 4/25/2012 2:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]