Diablo® III

Exploding Palm is Better in Groups

Aside from forcing other people to watch you create massive bombs out of flesh, Exploding Palm is better in groups for a very logical reason. Its damage is entirely based on monsters' health pools. For every person in the game, the monsters' health increases moderately, yet our individual damage does not . . . except for that x-factor of EP. I look forward to palming your screens with blood.

/endthread
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This is new and exciting information how exactly? Although your topic is a little misleading. It implies Exploding Palm is not good outside of groups, when in fact it's simply great all around. What makes it so good is that it scales with difficulty and player number.
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Is this speculation, or has it been tested? Corpse Explosion didn't scale with player number in D2...well, it did at first, but they quickly "fixed" it.

Edit: They tested it here
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?823852-EP-Suck/page3
It doesn't scale.
Edited by G3pwood#1383 on 4/23/2012 9:06 AM PDT
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Heard it does not scale with additional players joining the game.
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04/23/2012 09:13 AMPosted by Atech
Heard it does not scale with additional players joining the game.


I've heard multiple times from multiple random sources that it scales with not only monster health, but players joining. Doesn't mean that's correct, but it's what has been said quite a bit.
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We're talking about the explosion effect right? Of course that scales with monster health, its damage is entirely 100% based on monster health. And it has to scale with number of players because we all know monster health is greater the more number of players are in the game.
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87 Dwarf Priest
9205
04/23/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Snoo
We're talking about the explosion effect right? Of course that scales with monster health, its damage is entirely 100% based on monster health. And it has to scale with number of players because we all know monster health is greater the more number of players are in the game.


It only scales with monster health for a 1 player game. No ability increases in damage as more players join, and exploding palm is no different. Corpse explosion did not scale that way in Diablo 2 either. Stop spreading misinformation and looking stupid.
Edited by Puca#1857 on 4/23/2012 10:25 AM PDT
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04/23/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Snoo
We're talking about the explosion effect right? Of course that scales with monster health, its damage is entirely 100% based on monster health. And it has to scale with number of players because we all know monster health is greater the more number of players are in the game.


The original Corpse Explosion scaled with monster health and was just as strong with eight players as it was with one. It was then severely nerfed and it no longer scaled with the amount of players. You used to be able to blow up huge amounts of Hell level monsters in an eight player game as soon as you dropped the first. After the nerf you had to spam it sometimes until out of mana for a similar effect with a drastically reduced radius (half). Considering EP only deals 33% of the monster's health compared to CE's old 50% fire + 50% physical, it will be next to useless if it does not scale with players prior to Hell/Inferno in groups larger than two.

Corpse explosion did not scale that way in Diablo 2 either. Stop spreading misinformation and looking stupid.


Yes it did. Might help to get your facts straight before trying to correct someone with your own misinformation; and looking stupid in the process. Before the first patch it was waaaay more powerful, just like Whirlwind and mana/health leeching was. I had a level 89 Necro who did non stop /player 8 runs before the nerf came out.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/23/2012 10:32 AM PDT
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04/23/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Snoo
We're talking about the explosion effect right? Of course that scales with monster health, its damage is entirely 100% based on monster health. And it has to scale with number of players because we all know monster health is greater the more number of players are in the game.


Yeah, except they actually tested it over at incgamers and it doesn't work that way. It does damage based on the health of a monster in a 1 player game. Works out to something like 9.2% monster health in damage in a 4 player game.
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04/23/2012 10:26 AMPosted by G3pwood
We're talking about the explosion effect right? Of course that scales with monster health, its damage is entirely 100% based on monster health. And it has to scale with number of players because we all know monster health is greater the more number of players are in the game.


Yeah, except they actually tested it over at incgamers and it doesn't work that way. It does damage based on the health of a monster in a 1 player game. Works out to something like 9.2% monster health in damage in a 4 player game.


If this is the case then I apologize for my error. I could have honestly tested it in the Beta but I don't really have time to play since its last reset. The tooltip for Exploding Palm seemed perfectly clear to me - 30% of the monster's maximum health converts into damage to all nearby monsters. I didn't expect this to be a different number depending on the number of players in game. I was just putting 2 and 2 together.
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I am curious as to the this test performed by incgamers. Can you post the link to their test and how they came up with it?

I too would agree with the tooltip. 30% is 30% and it would seem that with more players the mobs health goes up and with this the 30% increases.

A link to the post would be a great help thank you.
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I am curious as to the this test performed by incgamers. Can you post the link to their test and how they came up with it?

I too would agree with the tooltip. 30% is 30% and it would seem that with more players the mobs health goes up and with this the 30% increases.

A link to the post would be a great help thank you.


Yeah, I mean, one would think that more HP should result in more damage, but I suppose they didn't want it getting OP in group play.

The link was in my first post in the thread, but here it is again:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?823852-EP-Suck/page3

I haven't been playing over the weekend, what with the open beta and all, so I don't have a monk leveled right now to test it myself. I'll try to remember to double-check their findings once I do.
Edited by G3pwood#1383 on 4/23/2012 11:57 AM PDT
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Thanks for the post. I read the party where they said tested but they didn't give any examples of how they tested it or the outcomes of the test.

I am more inclined to believe them but i am going to go home today and try it myself. I will EP a zombie and see the AOE damage in a single player game, then i'll get friends online and will try it again and see if the damage is the same.

If the explosive damage doesn't change then we know that the % to life is based on the original and not the bonus.
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I was watching videos online from blizzcon of exploding palm at higher lvls and it seems to %%!@ in the videos ... i was excited to try it out in beta and was EXTREMELY disappointed i hope this dmg scales by ALOT! This is beta character with 70.00 dps even still crappy dmg
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Thanks for the post. I read the party where they said tested but they didn't give any examples of how they tested it or the outcomes of the test.

I am more inclined to believe them but i am going to go home today and try it myself. I will EP a zombie and see the AOE damage in a single player game, then i'll get friends online and will try it again and see if the damage is the same.

If the explosive damage doesn't change then we know that the % to life is based on the original and not the bonus.


I was going to say this exact same thing before I saw that you beat me to it. After reading most of that thread, there's no actual mathematical testing or screenshots/video to support it. Some rando just says "confirmed, doesn't scale"...that won't cut it for me lol. I don't see why it shouldn't scale, at least a little bit.

Interested to see what you come up with Arch.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WZkVfY!ZbY!caaZZc
If my calculations are correct and Faith in the Light figures in, this build could potentially deal 77% of the target's life to nearby enemies upon death. I wouldn't actually use this build, but just saying.

This is a variation which I might consider using -> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WZkVfY!ZbY!baYZZc

A little less damage but better health/spirit regeneration.
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Now you're making me wonder...Does Exploding Palm benefit from percentage damage increases? In particular, does it benefit from Dexterity? If we were to get a few hundred Dex, could we boost that 30% monster life to over 100% monster life?

Another thing to test after I level a new monk...
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I just tried testing this out in a few four player games. Honestly, at level 13, beating up level 10 and below enemies, it's extremely hard to tell thanks to FoT already doing quite a bit of aoe damage by itself, and I can't really shut it off. It's too hard in a public game to be able to rush into a pack (even trying to find one by yourself seems fruitless) and simply punch something until it's near death before applying EP since to have this "accurate" you would only want to be hitting with the first two attacks out of the three from FoT. Like I said, it was hard to tell, but it definitely seemed to be taking off more than 10% health.

One thing that's actually pretty good with it, (even if it didn't scale that well) is the fact that it has no cooldown, so you can apply it to more than a single enemy and blow them both up at once. I think that's why for anyone who is seriously considering using this ability, Impending Doom will be necessary.

Now you're making me wonder...Does Exploding Palm benefit from percentage damage increases? In particular, does it benefit from Dexterity? If we were to get a few hundred Dex, could we boost that 30% monster life to over 100% monster life?

Another thing to test after I level a new monk...


I highly doubt it since the ability is based off of the monster's health pool, not your own damage (although damage increasing debuffs or mantras may have an effect).
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/23/2012 11:27 PM PDT
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One thing that's actually pretty good with it, (even if it didn't scale that well) is the fact that it has no cooldown, so you can apply it to more than a single enemy and blow them both up at once. I think that's why for anyone who is seriously considering using this ability, Impending Doom will be necessary.


This is something I plan to try, applying two EP's on two adjacent monsters and probably with cyclone for further efficient killing. I hope I don't have to get Impending Doom, because Strong Spirit will feed back much of the spirit I spend. A typical attack sequence would be something like this: (get monster to 20% HP) EP -> CS -> EP adjacent target -> kill that target via some combo spirit generator. Many monsters will be piled together, the original EP will finish off the first target around the time you start killing the second target, which should die in 3 seconds especially since it gets hit by one explosion already. That's my theory anyway.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
That's kind of... depressing if it's true. If it literally only does the equivalent of 30% of a mob's health in a 1 player game even if you're playing a 4 player game, that's gonna be kinda bad.

However, if it works that way and then our Dex mod affects it... well then. That brings it right back to pretty nice again.

From what I've seen having a main stats over 1000 shouldn't be very hard to hit in a fully gemmed and well geared set up for someone in Inferno. Even if it is only 9.2%, if we're multiplying that times 10.... heh. Even with 600 Dex(so +600%) would be pretty sweet.

That assuming no diminishing returns at higher levels of Dex. We already know that this happens with Dodge. Do we know anything about the damage increase? From what I've seen it scales at least up to 200 on a 1% for 1 point of Dex scale, or it did in past Beta builds.

Anyone heard higher than that?
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