Diablo® III

Exploding Palm is Better in Groups

Posts: 1,513
I don't know who you're trying to convince and of what. We already not only know how the tooltip reads, but also how it actually works. It's dealing base damage, so it's not entirely incorrect; but if you've actually played more than a single Blizzard game, then you would already know how ultimately vague so many of their tooltips are.

It's also not a lie, stop acting like a child.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/24/2012 4:57 PM PDT
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Posts: 89

Does blizzard, locust, and cleave have a corpse explosion effect with them? I never knew that blizzard would cause targets to shatter dealing X% of the targets MAX HP to targets around them within an AOE?

Can you help me understand how these skills you suggest are in any way similar to the monks corpse explosion effect the EP grants at the end of the 3 seconds?


Cleave does have a corpse explosion effect, the others do not. However, Cleave's rune is based off of weapon damage not monster max HP so there's really no comparison for this situation. I understand what people are saying, that it would be OP in higher difficulties for this ability to scale as your group gets larger...but honestly it seems to me like EP not scaling in that fashion makes it extremely underwhelming and UP. Perhaps Essence Burn really will be a superior rune for the flat weapon% increase instead of crappy scaling on health...
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Posts: 2,005
I don't know who you're trying to convince and of what. We already not only know how the tooltip reads, but also how it actually works. It's dealing base damage, so it's not entirely incorrect; but if you've actually played more than a single Blizzard game, then you would already know how ultimately vague so many of their tooltips are.

It's also not a lie, stop acting like a child.


I don't know how i have hit a sweet spot for you Void but the tool tip is vague, inaccurate and misleading.

In the real world this can be taken as a lie. If i mislead you to believe one thing then turn around and say another, i just lied you.

Am I angry at blizzard for misleading us with their awful tooltips? No.

I am glad to know how this skill truly works.

I have not been trying to convince anyone of anything. I took the time to test this skill and i posted the results. Its dealing damage based of the original health which is not clear in the tooltip and I am trying to offer this information to whomever wishes to read it. I am not asking for blizzard to change the tooltip because this will most likely never happen.
(Your Blizzard expectations hard at work. ^^)

You make the assumption that i have never played a blizzard game before or have put any time into a Blizzard title. I feel sorry for you that you choose to live your life with inaccurate assumptions then decide to over react on these assumptions. You must find yourself in a lot of arguments or disputes IRL. You wont get any from me. I choose to let bygones be bygones.

I don't hold the standards of one blizzard title over to the next. If i did, i would be like all those who are complaining about stat points and customization and weapon swapping and open world pvp and everything else that is D2 and not in D3. But i am not that person.

I took the tooltip for what it read. Theory crafted around it. Tested it. Found it to not be what i expected. Typed a frowney face :-( and moved on.

I offered my test results and condolences to those of us who had high hopes for EP and found out it is not as good as we assumed.

Stop acting like a child?

What would you say to someone who tried to get at another by calling them names? Childish maybe?

Sorry Void, but maybe you have made all your assumptions in the wrong context and i apologize for misleading you to this quick reaction and lack of information.

Because if you knew me, and if you knew all the blizzard titles i have played and for how long i have played them. If you knew the type of person i am and how i choose to believe in fun, friendly gaming, and theory crafting. Then you may have known not to lower yourself to name calling and becoming the child you so eagerly are willing to call out others for behaving.

I restated the facts to someone who tried to compare skills that don't follow the same mechanics as EP. I then showed what we thought it did vs's what it actually does. Then i explained my frustration, like many others who were let down by the tooltip as I was.
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Posts: 69
The math is easy

Can you kill the enemy in 3 hits from your spirit generator?

If the answer is 'yes' Then no, Explosive Palm isn't worth it.

But if the answer is 'no'...

If you can't kill it in 3 hits... that means it has at least 300% of your Weapon Damage as health.
In which case, the Explosive Palm will detonate for at least 100% Weapon damage.

Of course, be aware of other factors like armor and damage reduction. But this rule of thumb should let you know if you should use Explosive Palm or not.

I prefer the Fire Rune, simply because you can use it on trash and they will spread the fire to everyone around them, which will kill them, spreading the fire... etc. etc.

Explosive Palm, even without multiplayer scaling, will be THE ABILITY for Monks on harder playthroughs. I hope someone revives this thread 30 days from now so we can all have a good laugh :)
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Posts: 2,005
So no hard feelings Void. We all know now how this skill will work and can plan accordingly.

See you May 15th (^-^)
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Posts: 2,005
Amen Endgame,

even if it calculates out to be 10% of the 4 player mobs total HP. 10% of multiple thousands of HP is still not bad.

Example is the SK. In a 2 player game he has over 4200 xp on normal.

Imagine him with 4 players on Inferno. Could be like 40,000.

I foresee mobs having ridiculously high HP pools and EP will act accordingly. I will be a little more hesitant to use it come inferno. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Posts: 1,513

Explosive Palm, even without multiplayer scaling, will be THE ABILITY for Monks on harder playthroughs. I hope someone revives this thread 30 days from now so we can all have a good laugh :)


I already know it's a lot of crying over nothing. As the difficulty rises, EP's value increases. Whether or not the fire rune becomes useful depends entirely on not only your weapons, but enemy health. WoL is the only comparable skill, and it's not only a spirit hog, it also requires a two-handed weapon to get really good results.

ITT: People are upset that EP isn't the BROKEN ability we wished it was.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/25/2012 5:17 AM PDT
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Difficult to test with the fairly low levels of Dex equipment I had, but it doesn't seem like Dexterity effects Exploding Palm damage.

I noticed during my testing that the damage numbers I was seeing were always exactly 30% of the monster's max life. This could just be chance, or my monk being over-leveled or something, but it might also mean the damage from EP is unmitigated.
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Posts: 793
Sounds like this will be the worst ability in the realm of weapon damage scaling. Its damage doesn't scale, period?

We will all eventually be in Inferno killing the same monsters over and over. The monsters won't change but our weapon damage will with gear improvements. That means the less geared your character is the better this ability will be, and the better geared your character gets the worse this ability will be.
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87 Dwarf Priest
11245
Posts: 1,163
04/24/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Archangel
You make the assumption that i have never played a blizzard game before or have put any time into a Blizzard title.


If you played Diablo 2, you would know that corpse explosion effects never scaled with the number of players joined, despite all your crying to the contrary. The game balance reason is obvious. The only one surprised by the results is you.

As far as scaling off weapon damage, no palm doesn't scale off weapon damage directly. However, it does scale off weapon damage indirectly in the sense that as you get better gear you can build spirit faster, and kill the first mob faster to get palm to go off.

One way to think about palm is it's a way to spend 40 spirit to multiply whatever your current single target dps is by 0.3 * [number of mobs in the vicinity]. That multiplier stays constant, but its effect on your killing speed scales with gear because your gear increases your single target dps.
Edited by Puca#1857 on 4/26/2012 12:27 AM PDT
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Posts: 793
One way to think about palm is it's a way to spend 40 spirit to multiply whatever your current single target dps is by 0.3 * [number of mobs in the vicinity]. That multiplier stays constant, but its effect on your killing speed scales with gear because your gear increases your single target dps.


Good point.
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You may have miss something, during the open beta weekend, it seems that monster will gain armor when other players join the game. As EoP do physical damage, it should be mitigate by armor?
Since I am not able to play the beta, does someone can check monster gain armor on groups?
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Posts: 2,005
If you played Diablo 2, you would know that corpse explosion effects never scaled with the number of players joined, despite all your crying to the contrary. The game balance reason is obvious. The only one surprised by the results is you.


I did play D2 and i never played the Necro. So i never cared to research. Good to know it doesn't scale. Did it ever scale?

I have been playing blizzard title sense Warcraft and Tides of Darkness. Diablo, Diablo Hellfire (not blizzards title but same game), Diablo 2, Starcraft, Broodwars, SC2, Wow, D2, Warcraft 3.

Essentially all the Warcrafts, all the Starcrafts, all the Diablos, and WoW (4.5 years)... yeah, think that's about it.

So i apologies if i didn't bother to learn about every mechanic and it seems that more than just I thought that this would scale with mobs HP increasing.
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85 Human Warlock
2750
Posts: 703
The original Corpse Explosion scaled with monster health and was just as strong with eight players as it was with one. It was then severely nerfed and it no longer scaled with the amount of players. You used to be able to blow up huge amounts of Hell level monsters in an eight player game as soon as you dropped the first. After the nerf you had to spam it sometimes until out of mana for a similar effect with a drastically reduced radius (half). Considering EP only deals 33% of the monster's health compared to CE's old 50% fire + 50% physical, it will be next to useless if it does not scale with players prior to Hell/Inferno in groups larger than two.


I used to play a CE Necro in classic. I had all items that pumped amplify damage and corpse explosion. Doing 8 man cow runs was heaven. One barb would be assigned to me. I would AD the whole screen, he would WW in and kill 2-3 cows, and i would do a few CE and the whole screen would drop. Extremely satisfying.

It was so long ago that I could never remember exactly why I stopped playing that character. It must have been because of this nerf!
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Posts: 1,513
You make the assumption that i have never played a blizzard game before or have put any time into a Blizzard title.


If you played Diablo 2, you would know that corpse explosion effects never scaled with the number of players joined, despite all your crying to the contrary. The game balance reason is obvious. The only one surprised by the results is you.


Quit saying this. This is 100% false information. Stop acting like you're some D2 "pro" who has been around the block or whatever when you're completely missing out on crucial information. It DID scale with the number of players in the game prior to the 1.03 patch. You must have not played during the first few months of release. It not only nerfed the damage scaling, it cut the radius gains per level in half. It also nerfed the health gains on Revive.

What reason do I have to make the claim that I had an 89 Necro before the nerf? To save face or something? I don't really care what your opinion is of me, so it's definitely not that.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/26/2012 9:16 AM PDT
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Maharal, what's up with you and misinformation you tried to spread in the Monk and in the Witch Doctor forum sections????

You should know that CE did scale up when there were more players before they nerf it in the patch 1.1x if I recall correct.
Edited by Vosgedzam#1961 on 4/26/2012 9:44 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,513
1.03 :)

Sounds like this will be the worst ability in the realm of weapon damage scaling. Its damage doesn't scale, period?

We will all eventually be in Inferno killing the same monsters over and over. The monsters won't change but our weapon damage will with gear improvements. That means the less geared your character is the better this ability will be, and the better geared your character gets the worse this ability will be.


That's technically a good thing though, but it won't be for a very loooooooooong time. I guarantee that 30% monster health is going to be much higher than 60% weapon damage, especially if it's fire since they will probably resist more of that than they would the physical aspect. I mean just think about it. How long do you think it will take before you see 1000 DPS on your character screen? How often do you think you'll run across monsters with 3000+ health (single player)? Now the more players you add, the higher that health becomes and the weaker 60% weapon damage becomes compared to 30% health.

WoL might actually overtake it at some point, but then it's possible that you'll reach such high levels of weapon damage that those 60% explosions are enough to chain-reaction wipe out enemies that WoL would not be able to reach.

And yes, the default EP does scale with weapon damage. Or did we all forget that the dot is weapon based?
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/26/2012 9:31 AM PDT
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1.03 :)



Right you are! Good times!
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Posts: 2,005
04/26/2012 09:08 AMPosted by Void


If you played Diablo 2, you would know that corpse explosion effects never scaled with the number of players joined, despite all your crying to the contrary. The game balance reason is obvious. The only one surprised by the results is you.


Quit saying this. This is 100% false information. Stop acting like you're some D2 "pro" who has been around the block or whatever when you're completely missing out on crucial information. It DID scale with the number of players in the game prior to the 1.03 patch. You must have not played during the first few months of release. It not only nerfed the damage scaling, it cut the radius gains per level in half. It also nerfed the health gains on Revive.

What reason do I have to make the claim that I had an 89 Necro before the nerf? To save face or something? I don't really care what your opinion is of me, so it's definitely not that.


Thank you Void for coming to my rescue (^-^)b
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Posts: 1,513
I started a Barbarian just to play around with the utterly broken (at the time) Whirlwind, and right before the nerf came, I hit 29. :*(
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/26/2012 9:55 AM PDT
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