Diablo® III

Diablo III - The Customizability Story

82 Orc Rogue
3695
thumbs up to you and Bash.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6660
I've tried to reply to a couple threads, and it seems like there's just a desire to argue about it. I don't get a lot of sense that people want to really understand why, just that they played up to level 13, saw that the game is not Diablo II, and are upset about that. I'm not really sure how to have a conversation about it when there's just bad feelings and no one asking questions or wanting to learn more.

I can say "Wait until you have the entire game and its systems before passing judgment on the first few guided levels." but that doesn't go very far. People have seen skill trees before, they know what they are, and a diversion away from them is jarring. People like clicking a + button to spend attribute points, any systems attempting to make that more interesting or engaging is met with skepticism. I get it. It's tough to really understand how this is all going to play out together. I just constantly wish people took an approach of wanting to understand something before deeming it bad or wrong. Not to get preachy, but it's a nature that certainly extends beyond video games.

One thing I'm sure of, and why I don't find much interest in entering the argument, is that it'll all change after the game is released and people can see the full game and its design for what it is. It makes me sad seeing someone put off the game entirely because they want that + button, and anything but that is wrong, but ... ashamedly I also am at a loss of how to counter that way of thinking.


I wish I had your will power bash so I could stop arguing with people on the forums all day!
Community Manager
04/23/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Spekkio
bashiok...come on...I know you're trying to defend your game, but I think a lot of people would be satisfied if you just admitted that you are dumbing things down for the masses. It's a completely reasonable thing to do; you guys are doing it in WoW, it's obviously the direction you guys have decided to go with things, but nobody at Blizzard will just admit it. just come out and say that at some time WoW was not casual-friendly and that everything was becoming too complex both for Blizzard and for players, and that you guys have decided to simplify things for everyone. I think a lot of people don't like that there is no real, difficult decision making, because you can't really ever make a mistake. You can make all your soft-core characters the very first day and never have to make another toon again even if you play the game for 20 years. That's good for some people, but obviously a lot of seasoned gamers wont like that.


Yeah, I guess that's the mentality I just can't understand. WoW players should be especially aware that skill tress provided them no choice. You had your build, and then you'd have a few 'left over points' that you could spend anywhere, and you could spend them anywhere because they didn't matter. What mattered was the way you spent down the tree, and there was really one one or two right ways to do that per spec. I can't understand how anyone could logically look at that situation and say "I have a lot of choices!" unless the answer is they have no idea how to play the game and actually are making a bunch of choices, which are the wrong ones, and building horrible characters.

Diablo II was the exact same way. If you're not spending into synergies and boosting up a skill or two to max, you're probably doing it wrong.

How, in the wide wide world of sports, is having potentially hundreds of viable skills and the ability to only choose 6 of them, which means billions of possible build combinations, worse than a skill tree where you have one or two correct decisions?

There's only one logical answer to this, and that is people want to be locked into their decisions for better or worse because they feel that gives value to their choices. They are smart for picking the right answer and building a better or more interesting character. That is absolutely a noble concept, but we fundamentally just don't agree that people need to be locked into something for their choices to be smart or meaningful. How does a 15g respec make your choices instantly more palatable? You're suddenly a character building genius because the guy next to you has to pay 15g to copy you? Come on.

With billions of possible builds you will absolutely be doing something different than the guy next to you, and you making the skills you want to use work for you and be viable is a great achievement, because out of billions of possible builds how many do you think will actually work?

It's interesting to me that someone would value the permanence of their choices over being able to actually make choices at all.
Edited by Bashiok on 4/23/2012 7:03 PM PDT
85 Human Warrior
5535
The skepticism of the 'few' who think they're a majority is hilarious. Yet, why argue with narrow minds? So I'll stay out of that battle. However, I think I may have come up with a great idea for those select nancies that would like their "+" stat button:

We all remember that infamous troll in Diablo 2, the chat gem! Time to re-implement it in the form of a "+" button with a wonderful click-counter.

Trolls can have their cake and eat it too. Win, win.
Firm believer in this,

"Don't pass large accusations until AFTER you have had the ENTIRE experience."

Holds true to many things in life but more importantly if there is a group of people that are trying to do something for me, and they are putting a ton of time into it, I am not going to say anything about the end result until I have had the best the team has to offer. Once they are huffing and puffing and exhausted as hell because they have given it their all, only then will I pass judgment.

Again, holds true in many aspects of life.
Bashiok rephrased my 10,000 word thread in less than 400 words, well played sir.
04/23/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Bashiok
I've tried to reply to a couple threads, and it seems like there's just a desire to argue about it. I don't get a lot of sense that people want to really understand why, just that they played up to level 13, saw that the game is not Diablo II, and are upset about that. I'm not really sure how to have a conversation about it when there's just bad feelings and no one asking questions or wanting to learn more.
I think a lot of the recent complaints are because people think their skill choices are being restricted, which isn't true. Those players just haven't been following the game enough to know what elective mode is.

Seriously, why is elective mode hidden? It's causing a lot of unnecessary frustration, confusion and complaints.
My question would be, why was this never expected? Granted I am on the side of the "Should have the option to allocate own stats" as a customizable feature like elective mode but was it a total surprise that the dev team would be blindsided by a high number of complaints?

Diablo 2 is still running today. Arguably, Diablo 2 as a Linear ARPG has beaten out so many other, newer titles its so inconceivable that a game released in 2000 would do so well. Hell, A couple of weeks ago I noticed that Diablo II had more games played then Starcraft 2, whether this was an error in reading the # of games played in the game may be at my fault but it seems that Diablo 2 is still very widely popular.

SO, come Diablo 3, wouldnt it be conceivable that making such changes to the game would generate some anger among people who have been basically playing the same game for 12 years?

World of Warcraft and its many expansions have augmented character changes in small steps (such as spellpower removal from the majority of items post-WOTLK). This allowed people to adapt and change with the game, slowly and be assured that this would not ruin their gameplay. However, what has happened with Diablo 3, is the character building has been completely re-invented and in a way that is not grabbing people.

Diablo 3 is trying to compete with the hearts and minds of gamers who have been playing a game for over a decade. While yelling at them and saying CHANGE NOW seems to be the stance of many forumers and even the devs, it seems this is doing nothing more then furthuring angering people.

I think this whole situation has been handled absolutely wrong. I think while the devs were focused on building a game they believed their fans would enjoy in its entirety, they have forgot that their fans have been experiencing the same game for a decade and may not be willing to make such rapid changes in how they wanted to play their game.

Im willing to accept an autostat function, even the abilities and their runes. However, I wont sit and tell you I like a system that I truly believes hampers my ability to make my own choices. Many understand that your system will most likely work as intended, many just want to make themselves a little bit unique so at the end of the day. It makes our characters feel like our own, even if I decide to use Jimbobobs Uberdeluxe Barbarian to building a better barbarian.

And I am willing to say all this knowing that it wont change at this point.
Jay Wilson is wrong.

There. I said it. He doesn't get Diablo.
Having played multiple rpgs i don't mind not having stats, but i do have a few doubts regarding the way you unlock skills.

A friend of mine was talking to me about his build, and he claimed one of the biggest advantages of his build is having it completed by level 30+ (don't quite recall the precise level).

Now we know we will cap at 60, and we also know he might change his mind after trying some new skill/runes.

But for the sake of the argument let's say he was correct and his build will fit him the way he wants... so, from 30+ to 60 leveling up will be an afterthought, some new stats and that's it?

The reason i like talent trees so much is it keeps you excited to try out this new ability that looks sweet after reading it's description, which in turn makes leveling up so desired.

I'll see how it pans out before passing judgement (i'm also very accustomed to wow where leveling is priority over anything else).
85 Draenei Shaman
2910
It's pretty clear what the problem is to me. Change. People don't like it. People will play Diablo 3 and when Diablo 4 comes out and makes changes they'll say Diablo 3 did it right, why are you wrecking it in #4?!

Personally I love the new skill system and though my time in the game this weekend was brief, I absolutely loved it.
I was being a bit over the top. Considering I managed to get the Overachiever achievement in a weekend, I enjoyed it. :P

It'll blow over on the 15th, but for now people are going to be upset because there was a void left in the beta.

Also, if you want to pass along my feedback about The Skeleton King's dialog being extremely lame and juvenile, I'd love you. Seriously. Please.


I thought your first post was a bit over the top as well, however, I also agree that the dialogue for the SK is... ... ...lame...

Lets come up with suggestions.

How about: "How dare you bring the warmth of light into my tomb? I will break off your arms and beat Jondaaaaar to death with the bloody ends for not stopping you!"
I missed the permanence over choice comment.

Its the same reason why someone chooses to jump out of an airplane and open a parashoot that could fail. Its about the thrill.
04/23/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Lucied
I've tried to reply to a couple threads, and it seems like there's just a desire to argue about it. I don't get a lot of sense that people want to really understand why, just that they played up to level 13, saw that the game is not Diablo II, and are upset about that. I'm not really sure how to have a conversation about it when there's just bad feelings and no one asking questions or wanting to learn more.
I think a lot of the recent complaints are because people think their skill choices are being restricted, which isn't true. Those players just haven't been following the game enough to know what elective mode is.

Seriously, why is elective mode hidden? It's causing a lot of unnecessary frustration, confusion and complaints.

Would like an answer to why elective mode is hidden as well.
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