Diablo® III

Monk Weapon Choices

Hey guys, I wanted to kick start a discussion on how certain combinations *feel* regarding the Monk.

I made a demo video with some examples if you'd rather watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6A44Jd1mg0

Basically, while the math behind stats and what-not are always important, I've found that using fast 1-handers is the most satisfying (at least as far as the beta is concerned).

Most of the end-game 1-Hand Monk items are quite fast (almost as much as daggers), so I imagine Blizzard anticipates that kind of setup. But then I look at the Daibos which are around 1.10 attacks per second... and I have a hard time believing I'll ever want to use them. Thinking about Inferno, it seems ideal to use a fast 1-Hand for spirit generation, and then a shield for the defensive bonus...

Thoughts?

P.S. on the topic of attacks per second, does Blizz cap it at something? I would guess at level 60 with 2 super fast weapons, and a bunch of items with +speed, you'd hit a cap?
Edited by Onetwo#1132 on 4/29/2012 12:49 AM PDT
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if your monk is hell bent on dealing as much damage as posible a daibo is a must. i for one will be using dual 1 handers or 1 hander and shield but maybe some diabo will just have such good damage and stats that it will make it worthwhile dono yet. but i think attack speed and defence will be very important in inferno.
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04/29/2012 12:27 AMPosted by SamsonIX
if your monk is hell bent on dealing as much damage as posible a daibo is a must. i for one will be using dual 1 handers or 1 hander and shield but maybe some diabo will just have such good damage and stats that it will make it worthwhile dono yet. but i think attack speed and defence will be very important in inferno.


But the question is, with a fast 1H, will you be able to generate spirit fast enough so that you can use spirit spenders more, and maybe match the dps of the 2H?
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2H at the start of the game is weak as a lot of people have noticed. For example, the staff you were using in your video was 16 dps which is very similar to some 1-handers I've seen.

If you check the blacksmith recipes, 1H and 2H start off with about the same dps, but by level 60, 1H have ~200 dps and 2H have ~400 dps.
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2H at the start of the game is weak as a lot of people have noticed. For example, the staff you were using in your video was 16 dps which is very similar to some 1-handers I've seen.

If you check the blacksmith recipes, 1H and 2H start off with about the same dps, but by level 60, 1H have ~200 dps and 2H have ~400 dps.


Fair enough, but the daggers I was using were around 11 DPS, with the staff over 16 DPS... so it did represent the gap *somewhat*.
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But the question is, with a fast 1H, will you be able to generate spirit fast enough so that you can use spirit spenders more, and maybe match the dps of the 2H?


The Guardian's Path passive will help to assist the spirit generation gap of 1h vs 2h. to answer your original question - it's pretty much a decision of the player (if blizz did their job in balancing builds, etc.) My opinion, not knowing 100% because beta didn't give much experience into this topic, is that 2h damage will be significantly higher when it comes to using abilities whereas a dual wielding build will get most of its damage from generators via crazy attack speed and have lots of spirit to spend but the spenders will hit for much less. the balance comes from the rate at which spirit is generated. As I said before, if Blizz did their job correctly both builds should be 100% viable and just up to the players

I plan to go 2h because I'd rather blow demons faces off with awesome abilities than spam crazy fast generators.
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On this note, i looked up some different high end weapons, for you guys to drool over:

2H at the start of the game is weak as a lot of people have noticed. For example, the staff you were using in your video was 16 dps which is very similar to some 1-handers I've seen.

If you check the blacksmith recipes, 1H and 2H start off with about the same dps, but by level 60, 1H have ~200 dps and 2H have ~400 dps.


Here are the top 3 of each
----------------------------------------
2 handed:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-grand-zhezl
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/flying-dragon
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/innas-justice
(set item, that's Incentive)
----------------------------------------
1 handed:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/shenlongs-crashing-tide
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/shenlongs-endless-wave
(set items)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-fist-of-azturrasq
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/won-khim-lau
---------------------------------------
As for non class specific, I picked some cool ones:
---------------------------------------
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/wizardspike
(SERIOUSLY fast, imagine 2x)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/empyrean-messenger
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/azurewrath
(hubba hubba)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/vigilance
(polearm)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-grand-vizier
(staff)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-tormentor
(staff)

Overall, i'd say 2 of the daggers would be way awesome, you'd be a godly blur.
Looks like theres going to be some awesome looking characters out there. I just hope they put in weapon animations eventually, because with a godly weapon like one of these in your hands, you'd want to have it out. :p
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04/29/2012 12:27 AMPosted by SamsonIX
if your monk is hell bent on dealing as much damage as posible a daibo is a must. i for one will be using dual 1 handers or 1 hander and shield but maybe some diabo will just have such good damage and stats that it will make it worthwhile dono yet. but i think attack speed and defence will be very important in inferno.


The current daibo damage isn't really that much higher than the highest fist weapon. Hopefully the best daibo will be 50% stronger than the best fist weapon. The main issue is that most Inferno builds will most likely only have one ability that is on a decent cooldown (SSS) that would take advantage of a daibo. Something like Pillar of the Ancients would also take advantage of it, but it costs 75 spirit, and even if you had 29 spirit regen, you wouldn't really be able to just stand back and cast it.

Yeah, the Wizardspike is just stupid. I pointed that out a while ago. Even if the stats on it end up being crummy for a Monk, it still might out damage any fist weapon, especially when you're using a lot of proc effects.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/30/2012 8:15 PM PDT
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I suspect that for the tankier builds a 1h + shield will be the way to go. In terms of damage it really does depend on play style. All damage is based on weapon damage, so the question is really do you want most of your damage to come from low damage abilities but a lot of it, or high damage abilities used once or twice per fight
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What should tip the scales one way or another is how much spirit you intend to use. 2-handers will have the DPS advantage while dual wielding will give a spirit gen advantage. And obviously 1-hand+shield gives survivability advantage.
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Later gear will also have + Spirit per second regen on it. It is unclear if that stat can only appear on monk-only items. You could get up to 6 or 7 spirit per second just from items, not even counting the Guardian's Path bonus.
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I seriously doubt the daibo will be more damage than dual wielding. At least it won't be on longer fights against beefy enemies. They will most likely offer more burst though, and on fights where you might end up having to run back and forth, or chase something, they would probably pull ahead slightly as well. Dual wielding just surpasses it for flat out damage when you factor in weapon mods (IAS) and procs.

Most of our damage comes from generators anyway, not spenders. The only spender that truly looks like it would get the most from a daibo is SSS with Sudden Assault. Pillar of the Ancients won't exactly be able to be "spammed" by either type.

04/30/2012 08:42 PMPosted by Bonesnap
Later gear will also have + Spirit per second regen on it. It is unclear if that stat can only appear on monk-only items. You could get up to 6 or 7 spirit per second just from items, not even counting the Guardian's Path bonus.


You'll be able to get 29 spirit a second passively in the best gear. I kind of doubt anyone is going to take TGP with a daibo though (possibly at all) in an Inferno build.
Edited by Nevermore#1419 on 4/30/2012 8:52 PM PDT
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I should re-iterate, even with all of this number crunching, the feel of using a fast weapon is much much better than with a slow one (imo)... especially as you're darting around the battle-field.
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04/30/2012 08:51 PMPosted by Void
Dual wielding just surpasses it for flat out damage when you factor in weapon mods (IAS) and procs.


Blizz may implement some kind of "procs per minute" where a slower weapon will proc on a swing more often than a faster weapon, resulting in roughly the same number of PPM. In that case, the dps of weapon procs would likely even out. However things like spirit generation or SW crit bonuses would benefit from the faster weapon
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I still think they should put weapon swap into this game like Diablo 2, that way we can use dual wielding for our spirit generators and a 2h for the spenders... Now that would be awesome!... Gimme my 'W' weapon swap back Blizz!
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Personally I'm going to use daibo for my monk, just because I think they're so cool!

While I agree that their slow attack speeds don't "feel" very satisfying, I plan on getting IAS gear so that I can have ~1.7-2.0 APS. The dual dagger monk I've been playing around with in the beta has 1.72 APS, and I'm pretty satisfied with it. So as long as I can stack 60-80% IAS I'm good to go!

Also I'm pretty sure daibos will be viable in inferno. It would really suck if they made a class-specific gear not viable in inferno lol.
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The information to make decisions like this simply isn't available at this time. Until you wrap your hands around the full copy, it's unreasonable to say you have a good system for character build/item loadout. Most people are building assumptions based solely on BETA gameplay. While some things are a given, DPS, 1H's are faster than 2H's, Shields give more protection etc, there is no telling what types of items will be in the official release. Don't be to hasty to "have it all figured out" only to discover there was a whole lot of information you were working without. Either way, the monk is going to be a great character class for PVE and PVP, and if PVP is your forte then don't be so quick to set your character up for the "highest DPS" and expect to just call it good. It depends on what class you are fighting against and what skill set they're using. I can't wait until some wizard with "max DPS" shoots a trillion DPS fireball at me only to watch me blink instantly to his location and stab his soft wizard belly with my katana...Skills>DPS and that is what should be discussed. Chose the best skillset and the DPS will only make it better. Good conversation though, and i'm glad to see people who want to take the game seriously. I'll see you guys in the killing fields.
Edited by Crushpuppy#1842 on 5/1/2012 2:55 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
T It depends on what class you are fighting against and what skill set they're using. I can't wait until some wizard with "max DPS" shoots a trillion DPS fireball at me only to watch me blink instantly to his location and stab his soft wizard belly with my katana....


Or even better, pop Serenity + Instant Karma and Mantra of Retribution + Retaliation and watch his own attacks kill him, with me completely untouched. ;P

I'm really looking forward to doing this to Wizards, Barbs and DH's, actually...
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85 Goblin Priest
0
Monk brothers, don't give up on 2h-- keep your minds open.

Yes it will come down to play style. Crafting, finding will produce the weapons you use. Others will spend money to get the best whatever. Personally, only what I find, craft or am traded will be used. So... do you play super fast blur, powerhouse or damage mitigation?

Blizzard attempts to balance, sometimes they nail it, sometimes they fall flat on their faces. But they generally get the majority of the issues balanced (see the two qualifiers in that: generally & majority). They wouldn't put a class-specific 2h in the game for Monk if it wasn't equally as good as 2x 1h, in terms of damage. 1h & shield??? That's an all support build, and you'll get 1/2 the damage of the other two weapon builds. I won't be playing this style. However, all three should be viable come Hell or High Inferno- if Blizz balanced correctly.

We'll be seeing +%IAS, +spr, +x-xx ____ damage on weapons. When all is calculated together, you'll have some very kick a$$ weapon/s. There will be _the mod set_ for each weapon type that boosts how we play. And that will make your best weapon/s. For 2x 1h Monks, that requires you to be extremely lucky in crafting, or impossibly lucky finding the second one hander-- to get that perfect mod set on both of your weapons. Or just drop a bunch of your greenbacks.... >.<

Additionally, I'd say that the potential for seriously awesome crits will be possible, if not quite often, on the 2h. With daggers, fist weapons (I am speculating that these two will have the possibility of producing class-specific modifiers for the Monk, maybe not daggers, but in beta daggers did have +spi mod), since you're getting (balanced) roughly half the damage of a 2h, those crits won't be so spectacular or _damaging_.

Spirit generation, imo, won't be a big issue unless you do mostly spending, regardless of 1h or 2h, as both will have +spi modifiers on them. And if you're not using a weapon with +spi, imo, you're gimping yourself. Passive for dual wielding is +15% IAS and for 2h +25? spi regen.

Of course, as Faulklauk wrote, we have no idea what the full retail version has in store for us, yet I believe that my assumptions, speculations won't be too far off the mark....

/tibs out
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Monk brothers, don't give up on 2h-- keep your minds open.

Yes it will come down to play style. Crafting, finding will produce the weapons you use. Others will spend money to get the best whatever. Personally, only what I find, craft or am traded will be used. So... do you play super fast blur, powerhouse or damage mitigation?

Blizzard attempts to balance, sometimes they nail it, sometimes they fall flat on their faces. But they generally get the majority of the issues balanced (see the two qualifiers in that: generally & majority). They wouldn't put a class-specific 2h in the game for Monk if it wasn't equally as good as 2x 1h, in terms of damage. 1h & shield??? That's an all support build, and you'll get 1/2 the damage of the other two weapon builds. I won't be playing this style. However, all three should be viable come Hell or High Inferno- if Blizz balanced correctly.

We'll be seeing +%IAS, +spr, +x-xx ____ damage on weapons. When all is calculated together, you'll have some very kick a$$ weapon/s. There will be _the mod set_ for each weapon type that boosts how we play. And that will make your best weapon/s. For 2x 1h Monks, that requires you to be extremely lucky in crafting, or impossibly lucky finding the second one hander-- to get that perfect mod set on both of your weapons. Or just drop a bunch of your greenbacks.... >.<

Additionally, I'd say that the potential for seriously awesome crits will be possible, if not quite often, on the 2h. With daggers, fist weapons (I am speculating that these two will have the possibility of producing class-specific modifiers for the Monk, maybe not daggers, but in beta daggers did have +spi mod), since you're getting (balanced) roughly half the damage of a 2h, those crits won't be so spectacular or _damaging_.

Spirit generation, imo, won't be a big issue unless you do mostly spending, regardless of 1h or 2h, as both will have +spi modifiers on them. And if you're not using a weapon with +spi, imo, you're gimping yourself. Passive for dual wielding is +15% IAS and for 2h +25? spi regen.

Of course, as Faulklauk wrote, we have no idea what the full retail version has in store for us, yet I believe that my assumptions, speculations won't be too far off the mark....

/tibs out


Yeah this is all speculation so far... who knows, Monks might be crazy OP at level 60 with 2Handers and a certain build... in that same vein though, I think shields will be very useful... even if you can't really see their effect in the beta.
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