Diablo® III

Sparkflint and Magic Weapon need to go

Passives that take up an active slot are both too good (and probably part of the reason for the overnerf to some of the primary damage spells) and boring.

They restrict group builds massively simply because damage is the *only* group utility that the Wizard has. Conflagrate and runed Slow Time are the only things that can affect other players, and the latter is so clunky as to be almost unusable. Conflagrate is hard to apply because you need fire damage from Shock Pulse (lol), Meteor, Hydra (double lol) or gear.

So given that the Wizard role in the group is damage, you simply can't afford to give up 12% and 15% multipliers to whatever primary nuke you are getting. This is especially true since these are the only things that get you up to Barbarian levels of damage. This ends up with almost every group build including:

Frost Nova (by far the best group utility)
Familiar - Spark Flint
Magic Weapon
Signature Spell

This leaves *two* spells to choose. Yay. Flame away, but this is a really !@#$ty design choice by Blizzard.
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90 Human Paladin
13335
I'm not taking Frost Nova, personally. And I'm only taking ONE of Magic Weapon or Familiar.

Something like this for me:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#aiQSOm!bUf!YbYZcb
Edited by Dekkar#1990 on 4/30/2012 7:16 PM PDT
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If you want bonus damage, take the bonus damage. Their balanced in the fact that you lose utility spell slots.

Wizards role in the game is not just damage. Every ones role is damage and crowd control. Its not WoW
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I'm actually going to sacrifice a signature spell for sparkflint and force weapon. My predicted build (given the current information):

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZimQjS!bYX!ZccZaZ

Alternatively, I'll ditch even Ray of Frost in favour of a defensive ability, and focus on playing with just disintegrate and archon.
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86 Human Rogue
8625
I'm actually planning on taking neither
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I'm actually going to sacrifice a signature spell for sparkflint and force weapon. My predicted build (given the current information):

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZimQjS!bYX!ZccZaZ

Alternatively, I'll ditch even Ray of Frost in favour of a defensive ability, and focus on playing with just disintegrate and archon.


I looked at that, but I think it depends on whether Arcane Dynamo will affect the entire cast of Disintegrate. If it does, then I'm basically going to have to go with:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UimYjS!bYT!accYaZ

If it only affects the first tick of Disintegrate then I agree you can make a signature-less build.
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04/30/2012 07:02 PMPosted by Hydrix
So given that the Wizard role in the group is damage


That should be anyone's role in a group... which is why everyone gets options to increase their damage.

04/30/2012 09:25 PMPosted by Anaphylaxis
I'm actually planning on taking neither


See? They are not "must haves." That's actually why they were dropped from 35% extra damage to only 12% extra on sparkflint and 20% to 10% on magic weapon - which only makes a difference some of the time. If it takes as many hits to kill before the extra damage as after then it's wasted. It really depends on a lot of variables - and that slot might better be given to a defensive skill.

This leaves *two* spells to choose. Yay. Flame away, but this is a really !@#$ty design choice by Blizzard.


Look at the builds around here on the forum. How many people have said the exact same thing as you? Do you see people complaining about having only 2 spell choices as a wizard?
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86 Human Rogue
8625
for reference, here's one of my builds pulled out of my sack of theorycraft

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UiQRTP!dZV!aaYZbZ

this build focuses on generating as many mirror images as possible, and basically confusing the !@#$ out of all enemies on screen so I can sit around and fire off lasers at my leisure. Is it completely optimized for dps? No, it is not. But damn it looks fun, and I don't feel the least bit punished for not taking sparkflint and magic weapon. The game isn't about squeezing every last bit of damage out of your build, which is going to be something world of warcraft players are going to find strange, but take my word for it that if you go for a build that seems fun, you won't really mind if you deal 10% less damage than the other wizard in your group.

I mean sure, there are some exceptions to that rule, a completely illogical build is still going to fail, but you aren't going to suffer for not completely min/maxing your character
Edited by Kam#1457 on 4/30/2012 11:21 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Priest
13680
I'm taking 0 AP Ray of Frost instead of a signature spell, but yes I agree. I can't decide between Arcane Orb or Meteor currently for close range AE. Probably Arcane Orb with 20 AP orb for spammability. Otherwise I'm rocking Disintegrate. I was debating Arcane Orb with pass through rune vs Disintegrate, but as before, except this time Disintegrate is the more spammable spell. If they change the AP on Disintegrate like they mentioned to match orb I may shift, and then get in Meteor.
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05/01/2012 05:32 PMPosted by Deflectrshld
I'm taking 0 AP Ray of Frost instead of a signature spell, but yes I agree. I can't decide between Arcane Orb or Meteor currently for close range AE. Probably Arcane Orb with 20 AP orb for spammability. Otherwise I'm rocking Disintegrate. I was debating Arcane Orb with pass through rune vs Disintegrate, but as before, except this time Disintegrate is the more spammable spell. If they change the AP on Disintegrate like they mentioned to match orb I may shift, and then get in Meteor.


Sigh, thats a tooltip bug, its 12 AP, not 0
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for reference, here's one of my builds pulled out of my sack of theorycraft

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UiQRTP!dZV!aaYZbZ

this build focuses on generating as many mirror images as possible, and basically confusing the !@#$ out of all enemies on screen so I can sit around and fire off lasers at my leisure. Is it completely optimized for dps? No, it is not. But damn it looks fun, and I don't feel the least bit punished for not taking sparkflint and magic weapon. The game isn't about squeezing every last bit of damage out of your build, which is going to be something world of warcraft players are going to find strange, but take my word for it that if you go for a build that seems fun, you won't really mind if you deal 10% less damage than the other wizard in your group.

I mean sure, there are some exceptions to that rule, a completely illogical build is still going to fail, but you aren't going to suffer for not completely min/maxing your character


This actually kinda my point - there is too much of a difference between min/maxed damage and "hey this looks like a fun build" damage, compared to all the other classes - the main culprit is active passives. You **should** be able to make fun builds that include things like lightning hydra because you like the effect.

Of course you can make these builds, but that's irrelevant. Will they be effective? Is your "10% less damage than other wizards" an honest assessment?

Your disintegrate: 155% WD.
My disintegrate: up to 602% WD (sparkflint, magic weapon, deep freeze, arcane dynamo, glass cannon).

That's FOUR TIMES more damage. Or 400%. Or to put it another way, your assessment of "10% less damage" was off by a factor of forty.

I can tell you who my monk/barb/dh friends would rather party with.
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85 Orc Mage
11135
So after reading through your posts, I'm left wondering...

Do you feel that they should simply remove the spells and buff the rest of our abilities to compensate for the loss of two possible spells so we can take other useful abilities?

Do you not understand the role we have the option of playing in groups? (anyone who says that there are not any possible roles and every single player has only 1 role and that role is to kill things is ignorant.)

Or do you simply feel that the mere option of being able to take these spells is too tempting that you cannot seem to make a useful build without them?

If the first, please understand that there are a lot of us who like these abilities the way they are because they add a dynamic difference. If we want to take them, we do more damage at the cost of survivability. Sometimes, that is good. Other times it is not.

If the second, we as wizards have the option of multiple roles within an organized group. Sure, people can argue that ultimately you will be trying to kill things and yes, that is true, but if your maximum dps output is made higher by sacrificing some defensive abilities and other organized group members sacrifice a little dps to make you more survivable, then the overall dps increase across the group goes way up. I for one am playing in a group such as this. While all members of my group can deal some damage, the other members are focusing on control, health globe production, and damage reduction/buffing so that over the group as a whole, the output gets much, much higher. And yeah, you can bet I am taking sparkflint and force weapon. I don't think I'll take glass cannon, but it really depends on the whole interaction between power hungry and the immense health globe production the group is running on. Do I need to swap them for survival based abilities? Of course not. That is what the rest of the group is doing.

If the third, there are tons of useful builds that do not include them. For solo inferno play, you'd be silly to waste two spots on simple flat dps gains. It is (thus far theoretically) far more useful to take defensive abilities that double as offensive boosts, like time warped slow time, mirror skinned diamond skin, frost nova with deep freeze or bone chill, depending, energy armor with pinpoint barrier/prismatic armor, depending, mirror image with mocking demise, or any other mainly defensive ability with whatever rune combination you desire that makes you gain some dps. Why, in Sanctum, would you ever, ever, ever choose purely offensive activated spells when you are playing alone? You have damage dealing spells for that, why waste spell slots with something that only increases your weapon damage by 15% or 12%?

To your other question, dynamo lasts the entire duration of the channel, and archon is fairly useless for group pve play, though pvp still seems like it will be boss. with a 2 minute cooldown, you need to land killing blows to extend the duration. If your group is half conscious, you'll make maybe 1 in 3 kills and spend a lot of time moving between packs anyways. Might want to swap archon out for another useful spell.
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We don't know whether Arcane Dynamo affects the whole channel or the first tick, but that isn't the point. Even without it, you're looking at double the damage from taking some percentage bonuses and using Frost Nova every time it cools down.

The point is that the "10% more damage" was a load of rubbish, and that stacking multiplicative bonuses make such a huge difference that they have to take it into account when balancing.

If 155% Disintegrate is balanced with other classes and monster hp, then 300% disintegrate for the same cost is significantly overpowered. If 300% is balanced, then sacrificing two active slots to make a balanced Wizard build is just plain boring.

Edit: Disintegrate over meteor simply because of Arcane Dynamo. If you think that swapping them makes any difference to the percentage bonus they receive from passives then you're just terrible at maths.
Edited by Thrug#1197 on 5/1/2012 8:30 PM PDT
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Your disintegrate: 155% WD.
My disintegrate: up to 602% WD (sparkflint, magic weapon, deep freeze, arcane dynamo, glass cannon).


A much much more accurate picture is the 229.586% disintegrate, and you used up 1 passive and 2 actives to achieve 48% more damage on that skill. Now you are a one trick pony that has a 48% more damage disintegrate, and a whole lot less capability/defense than the wizard standing right beside you.

I don't think arcane dynamo is even applicable to this conversation because your original argument was that straight % increases are the problem, not a "once in a while nuke from builds that take advantage of arcane dynamo are a dung design"

I think though, you might have meant "bone chill" from frost nova, not deep freeze, as deep freeze gives crit bonus.
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85 Orc Mage
11135
It is not possible to accurately explain what the difference is between a buff on one spell and a buff on the other.

Comparing Meteor to Disintegrate is like comparing a Volkswagon to a pomegranite.

Meteor serves a function, to throw wide area of effect damage at a target location with a 1 second delay. Great for stationary mobs or mobs that are chasing you if you cast ahead of them.

Disintegrate is a piercing line attack that does line aoe damage, and does dps based on your weapon's dps, draining AP based on your weapon's speed.

Trying to choose one over the other is meaningless without knowing the area of the game you'll be playing in and the group you'll be playing with, if any.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WcOgPj!XUT!babZba
heres a build that i think im gonna be using that doesnt use magic weapon at all i do have sparkflint in there but might not use the familiar at all and put in meteor or blizzard in there havent decided yet
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might even use lightning hydra instead of familiar as well
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