Diablo® III

Monk vs Barb legit counter complaints :P

Posts: 230
Edit: Sorry, I didn't mean PvP when I said Monk vs Barb :D

Like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#..Y try http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#..Y
instead for better cool down, better resource generation (INSTEAD of consumption) AND no elite monster recovery?

Like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#..Q!!..Y try http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#..k!!..b
instead for 20% more armor and use ALL that EXTRA resource you have for popping health globes out of corpses :P not to mention EXP and Loot.

Like Monk mobility and Aoe DPS http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#..de!!...a try http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#..S!!..a
instead. Two skills in one. Generate resource instead of spending it. It does have a CD but don't kid yourself, those monk spells essentially have a CD also in the fact that your resource now needs to be replenished before casting again.

I'm having a REAL hard time seeing Monk and Barb as equals. Every non gimmick monk build I have is trumped by Barb builds. Maybe I need to hear from some Barb enthusiasts to hear their balance complaints about Monks? Are there any? Healing complaints obviously don't count unless damage reductions are high or damage reflections are used.

Edit: Most obvious one I just noticed might be http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#a!!c vs http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#U!!c
3 attacks =564%(114%AoE)Pulverize Damage, 530%(250%AoE)Windforce Damage. Windforce hits harder, but more frequent attacks(Pulverize) are well known to be more effective output of DPS(though I'm not certain it applies in the same way to AoEs). Lining up a good windforce from combo 1 through 3 will be MUCH harder then lining up each individual Pulverize. All this considered I no longer feel this is as obvious a counter complaint at all, they are quite balanced.
Edited by Candle on 5/4/2012 3:47 PM PDT
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Posts: 345
Barb owns, durr
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Posts: 1,901
1)Please be more coherent. I have no idea waht you are saying most of the time

2) If you want to argue balance, first understand basic math. Blinding flash affects 2.77 times the area that ground stomp does.

3) Finaly understand that if you try to shoehorn class B into class A, of course class B is gonna suck. Let the monk do what monks do, don't make it into a second-rate barb.
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Posts: 230
05/04/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Cracky
2) If you want to argue balance, first understand basic math. Blinding flash affects 2.77 times the area that ground stomp does.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#Y!!Z Stomped :P
05/04/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Cracky
3) Finaly understand that if you try to shoehorn class B into class A, of course class B is gonna suck. Let the monk do what monks do, don't make it into a second-rate barb.
Yes, like I said before, what is it monks do? :P
Edited by Candle on 5/4/2012 3:43 PM PDT
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Posts: 54
For starters, monks can heal the group. While Barbs, on the other hand, protect the group. If you can't see that from glancing over the monk abilities, then I don't think you see the synergy between the two classes.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aWXiTQ!ZYg!acaccc

That is a monk AoE build, that is based on damage reduction and group healing. Can a barb build out mitigate as much damage for the group? Probably, but it won't out heal the monk.

Now if you put the monk and barb together, you're looking at armor buffs, incoming damage reduction, group healing and damage buffs. For melee(and ranged to a degree), that's a beautiful combination.
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One thing I loved doing on my monk in the beta was to build spirit with Deadly Reach and immediatly Lash Tail Kick when the monsters were in melee range. This felt so OP, as the monsters would NEVER hit me. Of course higher difficulty levels will not be so easy, but it's still something the monk can do that the barbarian cannot, simply because the barbarian doesn't have a consistent ranged fury builder.
Edited by Arkatar#1387 on 5/4/2012 7:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 230
For starters, monks can heal the group. While Barbs, on the other hand, protect the group. If you can't see that from glancing over the monk abilities, then I don't think you see the synergy between the two classes.
I wasn't asking about synergies. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#..ikZ!a!..bbc Sorry, did you say something about Barbs not being able to group heal? :P Mind you, globs are not AS on demand, but war cry is just flat out stronger then MoH unless you are sacrificing damage output and spending spirit in recasting MoH for the 3 sec. HoT. At least monks HAVE the option to invest their resource into extra healing and I suppose that IS something worthwhile....
Edited by Candle on 5/4/2012 10:14 PM PDT
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monk has more utility and survivability through heals and CC

barb has more burst damage and tankyness, thats just the way it is
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Posts: 54
Nice stab at me, but you obviously know that in order for the Barb to go into a healing format, they severely reduce their options. Whereas a monk can go healing and have options.

Monks abilities (example: MoH) = health
Barbs abilities (example: War Cry) = protection

This is what I meant by monks can heal while barbs protect. Once a barb decides to go healing, he/she is locked in. A monk can still tailor their runes to fit their group's needs.

Health globes is luck based healing. Sure hope you don't hit a dry spell at the wrong time.

I already plan on going barb as my main class. But I find it silly to overlook other classes strengths and benefits.
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Posts: 230
Nice stab at me, but you obviously know that in order for the Barb to go into a healing format, they severely reduce their options. Whereas a monk can go healing and have options.
Sorry, not meaning to "stab" just looking for legit debate from Barb perspectives(Though I am a Barb enthusiast also) but I also feel your comment is not 100% honest. I see TONS of Barbs planning on going with globe builds(including and probably the most popular being the Birthright builds) and it definitely does not limit them ANY more(if not less, since they are killing [EXP, loot, globes, and less dmg from dead monsters] while procing extra globes) then monks. You only get one mantra and BoH is melle range heal so I'm not sure where all these "options" are for monk. There is no such thing as roles(support/tank/Dps) in D3, only "flavors" of play style so unless the Monks heal are substantially stronger(?) they need to be able to be killing/soloing through the game while doing it.

Health globes is luck based healing. Sure hope you don't hit a dry spell at the wrong time.
Agreed but that's where the extra Dps and toughness come into play. Perhaps I am just destined to play barb :/
Edited by Candle on 5/5/2012 10:09 AM PDT
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Posts: 54
Birthright builds are more about the extra loot, the health globes are bonus.

Runes = Options

A monk's abilities heals. From there you can pick the rune that fits your party the best.

A barb's abilities do damage/protection. From there your only option is a heal type rune.

And who said anything about role specifics? When I say heals, I'm not talking about a main healer who will keep the entire group up for the duration of a run.
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