Diablo® III

I do worry that shields will be mandatory....

Posts: 593
As the topic says, i kind of worry that shields will become almost mandatory to survive properly in inferno difficulty.

While the 30% damage resistance is nice, it won't SCALE; and inferno, from what i've read, is going to be all about Stacking gear since you'll be max level and enemies will outlevel you by about 3-4 levels.

This means that the only real scaleable thing that Barbarians can rely on for survivability (since the devs have said that Health leech will probably be nerfed in inferno) will be that shield; And given that, in the videos we've seen, melee characters drop FAST, i just don't see how a shield WON'T be mandatory.

Wizards will probably be fine by just not getting hit; Same with WD and DH; but, from what i've seen of inferno, i worry that shields will be about the only way for use to survive.
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Posts: 15
They out level you by 1 level...
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Posts: 1,048
I hate when people use and throw out the word "MANDATORY"

just like WD's and soul harvest

If you don't wanna use a shield, swap in an ability that adds survival, like ground stomp. Bam your done.
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Huh? It scales with the damage done to your character. Think of it as: damage after mitigation from armor/resistances/etc * 0.7. The harder you get hit, the more damage it prevents.
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Posts: 593
05/03/2012 03:30 PMPosted by Lorzatu
Huh? It scales with the damage done to your character. Think of it as: damage after mitigation from armor/resistances/etc * 0.7. The harder you get hit, the more damage it prevents.


My point is that armor will be increasing its percentage as you gain gear, As will Resistances in Inferno; As you get more armor and more resistances, the percentage that you take drops, so it will scale-- you'll move from 40% to 41% to 42% and so on. A set 30% reduction will always be a 30% reduction throughout all of inferno, unnaffected by gear.

A reduction that never changes is still effectively static as far as effective health is concerned.
Edited by aleksandor#1289 on 5/3/2012 3:39 PM PDT
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05/03/2012 03:38 PMPosted by aleksandor
A reduction that never changes is still effectively static as far as effective health is concerned.


You shouldn't argue it doesn't scale - it most certainly scales with damage done to your character. The harder you get hit, the more damage it prevents.

What you seem to dislike is that it scales with damage done and not effective health. If it scaled with effective health, 30% would be grossly overpowered. Barbarian might not be the class for you.
Edited by Lorzatu#1485 on 5/3/2012 3:49 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6670
Posts: 138
I love how everyone assumes Inferno is just going to be monsters hitting harder and having more health.

I'm going to do the exact same thing you're doing, but opposite! Observe...

A shield won't do you a bit of good in INFERNOoooooOOOOooooo!

I have as much proof as you! Yay!

Ok, I'll put my @$$holisms away for the moment. I'm pretty fed up with people's just tossing the word "Inferno" out there like they know everything about it. I only believe what I hear from the devs, which is very, very little. They say Inferno will be harder then Hell difficulty, and the few examples they've given haven't implied anything about shields making or breaking a class.

On the reveal page, if you watch the latest (and final) dev blog, they talk about Wallers. These are elites that toss up walls when you try to run. A shield isn't going to save you from that, and even if it somehow could, I guess anyone who isn't a barbarian is just completely boned in Inferno, because hardly anyone besides a barbarian will have any incentive to use one. If Wallers are the trend, then it is mechanics and AI that will be the scary factor of Inferno, not just a simple issue of "Wow, these things hit harder then they do in Hell!"

Inferno.
Edited by Masque#1164 on 5/3/2012 9:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,901
^That, really. Anyone remember act IV hell mode in D2. What was death to any melee character, it sure wasn't enemy DPS, it was !@#$ like the Iron Maiden thsoe abyss knights put on you.

And also remember, a strong offence is always a good defence. The enemies can't kill you if they're dead.

Now, if you want to play "tank" for a party of 4, yeah you're going to need a shield, but that should be expected.
Edited by Cracky#1470 on 5/3/2012 10:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 686
I keep seeing the 30% damage resist brought up, and how it scales.

One thing to keep in mind as far as that goes. It was added because of survival problems in Inferno.

That means the number chosen is a number that takes into account either how much or how little it scaled with armor and resistances.

Even if 30% at Level 60 armor adds up to a 'real' reduction of 3%...well, 3% is what we needed.

Look at it as a bonus for lower levels which we may not have needed, and being just right for the highest levels, because that's what it has been created for.

There should also be no doubt that if it ends up being too much or too little, that Blizzard will adjust it to make it more balanced.

----------------

As far as shields being mandatory, there are just to many factors that go into our gear and build for me to see that being true.

At certain levels of gearing a shield might be the 'best' choice for some content, but even that statement is hard to justify.

For example:

- A lot of defensive passives look to easily offer more benefit than a shield.

The only way a shield would be mandatory is if we needed to have all 3 of our passives be defensive, and still needed more survival on top of that. Again, easy to see this being true in some circumstances, but if it was required in all circumstances, then why would Blizzard even put in offensive passive.

- Dual wield or two handed weapon with defensive stats.

Just because we have a weapon doesn't mean it has to have offensive based stats on it. You'll at least be able to equal the affixes you'd get from a shield with a weapon. (And in reverse, a shield doesn't have to focus on defensive affixes).

In a similar vein, we have a lot of gear to mess around with getting whatever stats we need. Whether it's more survival, more damage, or at some point in the game, the ability to pick up gold from 2 time-zones away (wouldn't that be a fun gearing choice ^.^).

- More damage from a second or larger weapon means the thing that's hurting you stops sooner.

Most likely what we'll see is that all 3 scenarios (sword and board, dw, 2h) are all just as good as each other. They're different, and they benefit different mentalities, play-styles, and builds...but in the long run you should be able to achieve success with any of them. (Which to me is pretty amazing/awesome).
Edited by Sei#1757 on 5/3/2012 11:39 PM PDT
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Posts: 250
What is this 30% number that keeps popping up. I am confused. DR isn't capped at 30% or anything right?
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Posts: 291
05/03/2012 11:58 PMPosted by Kaz
What is this 30% number that keeps popping up. I am confused. DR isn't capped at 30% or anything right?


Barbs and Monks have a passive 30% damage reduction. It's built into the characters.
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Posts: 250
05/04/2012 12:00 AMPosted by Auragami
Barbs and Monks have a passive 30% damage reduction. It's built into the characters.


Is this shown as damage reduction when you mouse over your armor or is it invisible and in addition to that?

Thanks for the quick reply.
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Posts: 2
the %30 damage reduction is added to barbs and monks in inferno ONLY!

there is no %30 damage reduction added for the normal, nightmare and hell difficulty's.

Plus the armor bonus from a shield is minimal the only thing that is worth wearing a shield for is the block chance. Shields will only block a hit %10-%20 of the time, and they only block a limited amount of damage.

shield: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-dread-shield

Just picking up one defensive passive like "tough as nails", or "nerves of steel" is way better than having a shield.
Edited by dkorean#1857 on 5/4/2012 12:46 AM PDT
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Posts: 686
the %30 damage reduction is added to barbs and monks in inferno ONLY!

there is no %30 damage reduction added for the normal, nightmare and hell difficulty's.

Plus the armor bonus from a shield is minimal the only thing that is worth wearing a shield for is the block chance. Shields will only block a hit %10-%20 of the time, and they only block a limited amount of damage.

shield: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-dread-shield

Just picking up one defensive passive like "tough as nails", or "nerves of steel" is way better than having a shield.


March 8th, 2012 (Beta Patch 14 notes).

Barbarians now have innate 30% passive damage reduction versus all sources. This damage reduction is applied at the same time as all other damage reducing effects (such as Armor), but prior to shield block.


http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3429858012

No mention of Inferno. In another Blizzard statement it was mentioned as being added because of trouble surviving in late difficulties. Trying to find link.

Also from March 8th

As of right now, this number is not going to display in your stats.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4139868943?page=1

---

These are the most current sources that I'm aware of, I'll keep looking for more recent blue posts : )
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Posts: 1,901

Plus the armor bonus from a shield is minimal the only thing that is worth wearing a shield for is the block chance. Shields will only block a hit %10-%20 of the time, and they only block a limited amount of damage.

shield: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-dread-shield


you realize that very shield you linked has over twice the armour bonus of the best chest armour in the game, right?
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A shield shouldn't be necessary if you rely mostly on CC and movement, i.e. not getting hit much if at all.

If you intend to stay in the fray and start aoe'ing like a madman, which is a perfectly healthy playstyle (though risky at Inferno difficulty), consider the fact that +% to armor, be it from active or passive abilities, will be that much more effective if you wear a shield.

Oh, and also consider that although 1% DR at 25% is the same amount of damage reduction as 1% DR at 50%, the former represents an improvement of 1.33%, vs. a 2% improvement from the latter.
Edited by Arkatar#1387 on 5/4/2012 7:09 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,048
the %30 damage reduction is added to barbs and monks in inferno ONLY!

there is no %30 damage reduction added for the normal, nightmare and hell difficulty's.

Plus the armor bonus from a shield is minimal the only thing that is worth wearing a shield for is the block chance. Shields will only block a hit %10-%20 of the time, and they only block a limited amount of damage.

shield: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-dread-shield

Just picking up one defensive passive like "tough as nails", or "nerves of steel" is way better than having a shield.


So false, the damage reduction is all 4 difficulties
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id like to see "what you've seen of inferno" lol.
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Posts: 1,559
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/bradygames-strategy-guide-pages#.T6WI9sRd5fY.facebook

Just a few pages from the strategy guide. I think they've listed 4 monster types with complete stats just to show the staggering jump from hell to inferno.
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Posts: 460

And also remember, a strong offence is always a good defence. The enemies can't kill you if they're dead.


This statement seriously needs to die. The reality is that a good defense is a good defense! Unless you can one-shot enemies before they hit you, your character is going to die if you ignore your armor, vitality and resistance.
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