Diablo® III

let's talk about enrage timers

Why does this game have to be like WoW?

So very lame.

W/e, going to see if I can get a crew of like minded players together and make a mint selling Inferno gears. They will have to increase 250 buck limit though, top tier items will sell for way over that if Inferno is as hard as they say.
Edited by fixit#1698 on 5/5/2012 9:23 PM PDT

In Diablo 3, you're choosing abilities, where there is tons of overlap in doing a particular thing (single target, CC, aoe, escaping, etc.), but you're not choosing something purely numerical in nature, you're choosing HOW you want to go about that specific task.


I agree with this but i also think they should take it farther as in, You can pass this part with CC OR aoe. Something like that so there is even more diversity.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
15325
05/05/2012 09:19 PMPosted by alan
I agree with this but i also think they should take it farther as in, You can pass this part with CC OR aoe. Something like that so there is even more diversity.

I don't think they're intended to stop you from doing that. They just don't want you to get away with a build that completely forsakes defense or offense. If you can blow through everything in the game before it gets to you, there's no challenge. If you can mitigate damage well enough that you're never at risk of dying, there's no challenge. But how you go about balancing killing things and keeping them from killing you should be open to many different configurations.
05/05/2012 09:25 PMPosted by Vv
I agree with this but i also think they should take it farther as in, You can pass this part with CC OR aoe. Something like that so there is even more diversity.

I don't think they're intended to stop you from doing that. They just don't want you to get away with a build that completely forsakes defense or offense. If you can blow through everything in the game before it gets to you, there's no challenge. If you can mitigate damage well enough that you're never at risk of dying, there's no challenge. But how you go about balancing killing things and keeping them from killing you should be open to many different configurations.


Agreed. I guess we will see if Bliz earns their good name and pulls this off.
90 Undead Death Knight
0

They don't want you to get too comfortable, settling in with pure DPS blitzing or simply doing your defensive cycle until the enemy bleeds to death. The risk of dying should always be a concern.


Kiting is neither pure offense nor pure defense, it's its own beast. "Pure Mobility" perhaps - I'd say "pure evasion" but that sounds too much like Dodge/Block which equals Defense.

The inherent risk in kiting is finding other monster groups, especially if this rumor of random/timed group spawns in Inferno is accurate; ie, you can never kite with 100% safety like you could in Diablo2 just by clearing out the area.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
15325
05/05/2012 09:32 PMPosted by Bonesplicer
Kiting is neither pure offense nor pure defense, it's its own beast. "Pure Mobility" perhaps - I'd say "pure evasion" but that sounds too much like Dodge/Block which equals Defense.

It's still mostly about risk mitigation, which I would argue is inherently defensive.

Anyway, as I've said before, I think they just want to discourage extremely lopsided builds from become prevalent. And it's not to eliminate the merits of those builds. You should still be able to kite. But if your offensive output is so anemic you can't help but get enrage timers, odds are you're way too focused on never getting hit, and not enough on actually killing stuff.
if you cant kill a mob within 25 seconds of engaging it, it turns into duriel
05/05/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Vv
odds are you're way too focused on never getting hit, and not enough on actually killing stuff.


If you're too focused on never getting hit. Enrage timers shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

That'd be an /thread right there and I think we just found our inferno cookie cutter build.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
15325
05/05/2012 10:20 PMPosted by ODurren
That'd be an /thread right there and I think we just found our inferno cookie cutter build.

Right, because enrage timers never trigger unavoidable attacks or increased movement speed.

They'll never think to stop you from kiting something. /thread indeed.
So pessimistic. This is blizzard we're talking about so you could very well be right. But then again. This is blizzard we're talking about. There isn't a series/franchise/company in this world that didn't thrive off the concept of kiting something around as much as Blizzard has.

Not unless the WHOLE screen turns red (c what I did there) when the enrage timer hits and you just strait up die because of it, chances are kiting stuff around will be your best bet to survive inferno.

Unless you can get stuff stuck in stuff. You'll probably see alot of that too. (Butcher in the stairwell, anyone???)

05/05/2012 10:25 PMPosted by Vv
trigger unavoidable attacks

Next thing we'll find out is when you start a boss fight a door closes behind you! GOOD LUCK BASTAGES! Mwa hahahah!
Edited by ODurren on 5/5/2012 10:41 PM PDT
there better not be enrage timers!
80 Troll Death Knight
3575
My impression of the statement about enrage is that it's not something that's going to come into play over the span of a single fight, it's there so that if you keep wiping on the same champ/unique pack over and over again, it'll eventually enrage basically as a way of the game telling you "Okay, you guys aren't quite ready for this difficulty yet, so we're going to make this fight literally impossible to beat so that this is obvious to you and you can go back to an earlier difficulty- and back to having fun- instead of running into this brick wall over and over again.".
90 Blood Elf Hunter
15325
05/05/2012 10:32 PMPosted by ODurren
Not unless the WHOLE screen turns red (c what I did there) when the enrage timer hits and you just strait up die because of it, chances are kiting stuff around will be your best bet to survive inferno.

*shrug*

It's hard to say with champions, given their variability. You've got things like wallers and whatnot that probably discourage it. I don't doubt that kiting will have its uses or anything though. I don't think enrage timers are meant to kill kiting altogether. Just discourage it from becoming overly prevalent. It's about breaking metagaming tactics, like pulling the plug in Diablo 2 to prevent your hardcore character dying.

Also consider bosses use fixed set pieces, and specifically lock you in with them. For those encounters in particular more traditional enrage timer mechanics (hell, just the boss moving really fast probably) could be employed.

05/05/2012 10:32 PMPosted by ODurren
Next thing we'll find out is when you start a boss fight a door closes behind you! GOOD LUCK BASTAGES! Mwa hahahah!

Didn't see the edit. They already do. Or at least, the Skeleton King did.
Edited by ZHER0K#1488 on 5/5/2012 10:46 PM PDT
I hope you all die in hell mode people that cry about the game being hard for any reason. I hope to not be able to beat the game on inferno unless I have to think of some new ideas that do only work for inferno. Go to Hell mode .... if you want to win not cry.
05/06/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Dbz
Go to Hell mode .... if you want to win not cry.


Agreed. First people whine about wanting inferno to be hard, and when Blizzard announces that they can't use their lame tactics anymore, they start to whine even harder.
90 Human Warlock
16060
I'm about to hit MY enrage timer. DoTs for all!
05/06/2012 03:41 AMPosted by Fluzing
Go to Hell mode .... if you want to win not cry.


Agreed. First people whine about wanting inferno to be hard, and when Blizzard announces that they can't use their lame tactics anymore, they start to whine even harder.


No more tele escapes.

Also, to every single person whining about "Blizzard taking away viable builds"

For the love of god, you need a way to do DAMAGE, thats the restriction, at least ONE, thats IT. That is hardly going to wipe out the metric ton of viable builds D3 will have.

Look at the skills calc, LOOK AT IT. You can make all kinds of funky builds, you just need one solid DPS option, and thats it. (if you want to play a specific style) This should surprise exactly NO ONE, this was the exact case in both other Diablo games, there is exactly 0 "skill" lost in translation, this is a pretty basic and completely understandable restriction.

Its like you guys have never played a Diablo game before, the game IS a gear check, always has been. If EVER there was a game that a gear check mechanic would work in, it is Diablo. This is established, we have known this for over a decade.

Get with the damn program.
[NIKO]1. People are whining that they can't sit back and pew pew 1 hp at a time until said mob is killed.

3. You contradict yourself in your point 5 since you whine about things being gear checks but say also that nobody cares about grinding more gear.

4. Only prevents the derp squad who wanted to go full defensive or full offensive builds from winning.

5. Kiting around and killing something painfully slow is not skill. The game is built around balances. A balance of offensive and defensive skills, tactics, and gear stats (aka MF). If you try to venture to the fringes of these you will move outside of an optimal range you will struggle to succeed or flat out fail. People are acting like these enrage timers are going to be so short that unless you are melting face off with an obnoxiously offensive build you will get insta-gibbed. I highly doubt that is how the enrage timers are implemented.

If you weren't aware there was a group of 4 players in the beta that killed the skeleton king... They were all lvl 1... I don't doubt that it was probably inherently difficult and it took them like 45 minutes BUT that is the kind of garbage that they DON'T want to be possible. Just because you can kite around a boss with your buddies indefinetely and just rez people that were careless in between a pew pew here and pew pew there SHOULD NOT be able to advance in the game. That is cheesing the system bro. I'm sure the enrage timers will be relatively conservative IF you are in average gear level to the corresponding encounter.


[Renvex]Please read the post before responding to it. I was not whining, or even stating my own point of view at all. Merely summing the points of the thread. And you dont seem to have read all of 5, just the parts you like.

Try again

EDIT: On re-reading, I dont think you will actually understand why I didnt bother responding to most of your invalid post. So ill explain in more detail.

1. If people want to chip away at an enemy, that is their choice, and there's no reason to deny them that choice. Unless, like I said, you want to reduce the number of viable builds.

3. No, actually I don't. Read it again. Look at the part in brackets. Actually you still probably wont get it. Ill explain. People don't mind grinding for gear, people know diablo has a focus on gear. People DO mind a shift to an EVEN GREATER focus on gear AT THE EXPENSE of focus on player skill. Understand now ?

4. Read 1

5. Read 1

Your random talking about beta: Read 1

I hope this helped.


Your point 1 doesn't hold any water since it's based on the wants of a few who want to cheese mechanic the game to win instead of playing how Blizzard intends it to be. You are taking enrage timers way too extreme and like I said I'm sure they will be fair.

My "random beta point" is exactly one of the reasons why they are implementing them. Just because it happened in the beta you think it isn't valid? It's the same game man. AKA they would be able to do that on retail also. It creates a scenario where you could possibly do this for any boss (not lvl 1 obviously) as long as you had a group and could rez and just kite a boss around ad infinitum.

You didn't bring up 80% of my post because it logically invalidates your post. Enrage timers I would argue shift the balance MORE to player skill since you have to use a well thought out build to win with tactics against champ/elite packs & bosses. They didn't say there were going to be enrage timers on standard mobs. If you can't beat the game other than with cheesing it then don't fight the guys that drop the best loots.

Lastly,

UMADUWRONGBRO? <3 (:
Edited by Charlamagne#1661 on 5/6/2012 6:42 AM PDT
In a game where people can just buy their gear, I welcome inferno to be even harder than just a gear check. Well done!
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