Diablo® III

let's talk about enrage timers

90 Undead Death Knight
0
05/06/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Dbz
I hope you all die in hell mode people that cry about the game being hard for any reason. I hope to not be able to beat the game on inferno unless I have to think of some new ideas that do only work for inferno. Go to Hell mode .... if you want to win not cry.


The point here isn't "inferno sounds too hard, QQ," the point here is that with all the monster stats we're seeing come out of data-mining now, we all KNOW it's going to be HARD. People are ready to step-up to the challenge; they're theorycrafting builds left-and-right, trying to find the balance between Offense & Defense that will work for them.

Mobs with high stats & strong attacks are naturally difficult.
Enrage Timers are artificial or imposed difficulty.

As much as Diablo players want to bash WoW players, anyone who's played WoW knows how incredibly frustrating Enrage Timers are. You HAVE the strategy. You HAVE the mechanics. You HAVE the coordination. NOBODY has died even once; EVERYBODY is above 90% health.

But oh, look at that, you took 3 seconds too long to kill the boss. Enrage. Everyone dead - at 2% Mob health.
As much as Diablo players want to bash WoW players, anyone who's played WoW knows how incredibly frustrating Enrage Timers are. You HAVE the strategy. You HAVE the mechanics. You HAVE the coordination. NOBODY has died even once; EVERYBODY is above 90% health.
But oh, look at that, you took 3 seconds too long to kill the boss. Enrage. Everyone dead - at 2% Mob health.


I think if they go through with diablo enrage timers it should be visible without aid of third party tools. I also think that without enrage people would just stack defensive stats, or in case of wow, tanks and healers. (First heroic omnotron kill took 10 healers).

Enrage timers are only bad if you don't see that it's coming.
As much as Diablo players want to bash WoW players, anyone who's played WoW knows how incredibly frustrating Enrage Timers are. You HAVE the strategy. You HAVE the mechanics. You HAVE the coordination. NOBODY has died even once; EVERYBODY is above 90% health.

But oh, look at that, you took 3 seconds too long to kill the boss. Enrage. Everyone dead - at 2% Mob health.


I played plenty of WoW and completely disagree with this. The amount of DPS your raid does depends on how many DPSers you bring (i.e. how few healers you need), how good they are at DPS in general, and how efficient they are at dealing with the mechanics. If a top guild can beat the enrage with worse gear, then you have to think about why you aren't beating it. You can always improve on the things I just mentioned, so you cannot really say that you have the strategy and the mechanics down, you just think you do. It can always be done better.
Enrage timers are good imo. it filters out the noobs from the better players. Also, I don't think the enrage timers will be ridiculously short...

Let's all wait for the game to release before making negative assumptions.
Community Manager
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.
Edited by Bashiok on 5/6/2012 10:44 AM PDT
So enrage timers are unique to each monster? That's quite neat.
05/06/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Bashiok
People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.

Good post.
55 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
05/06/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Venomheart
As much as Diablo players want to bash WoW players, anyone who's played WoW knows how incredibly frustrating Enrage Timers are. You HAVE the strategy. You HAVE the mechanics. You HAVE the coordination. NOBODY has died even once; EVERYBODY is above 90% health.
But oh, look at that, you took 3 seconds too long to kill the boss. Enrage. Everyone dead - at 2% Mob health.


I think if they go through with diablo enrage timers it should be visible without aid of third party tools. I also think that without enrage people would just stack defensive stats, or in case of wow, tanks and healers. (First heroic omnotron kill took 10 healers).

Enrage timers are only bad if you don't see that it's coming.


LOL first heroic onmitron was 4 healers.... H-omno had an 8 minute enrage at the beginning, and was later nerfed to 10 minutes
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


Oh god I want to like this post.
85 Dwarf Priest
4970
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


This is rather unproductive. You (Blizzard) have continuously claimed that the best loot is off rare spawns so unless every rare and champion spawn is also going to have enrage timers, what exactly is the point of putting an artificial timer on a fight. Individuals don't grow in strength after long battle. In fact, the realistic circumstances would actually weaken the boss over time but then again when was fiction based on reality?

I, personally, don't see the point of having enrage timer mechanics in the world of Diablo. The player who goes with defensive stats and picks up MF gear is going to have a longer fight than someone who is geared with damage enhancing gear. What made Diablo great was the fact that tactics enabled under-geared players to engage bosses by utilizing tactics instead of just raw offensive powers. For example, Mephisto was fought utilizing distance because his orbs and lightening was avoidable and thus enhancing the capacity of an under-geared player who may have otherwise been killed in 1 hit.

In reality, the SK can already teleport to the player. Why not just add a slow effect debuff to circumvent the ability to kite?

Enrage timers only hinder the customization of a character as offensive stats become more favorable than defensive stats once a specific defensive capacity is reached.

Your efforts to introduce progression in Inferno seems to mimic WoW more than it does the Diablo series.
Edited by Slomo4shO#1943 on 5/6/2012 11:06 AM PDT
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


Why do you need to fight this? How does it have to do with "item drops matter(ing)?" It's an extremely poor way to get item drops, it sounds like. If I spend an hour for one mob and someone else spends 10 minutes, they're going to get a lot more drops. Sounds appropriate to me.

To me enrage timers are a cheesy tactic to inflate difficulty in a non-creative way, and punish less-geared players. (<troll>Perhaps to direct them to the RMAH?</troll>)

I personally found a lot of satisfaction slowly picking away at a mob that's too powerful for me, and eventually taking it down, in Diablo 2. It wasn't the best way to get drops at all. It didn't ruin the game for anyone.
Enrage timers is just a gear check in WoW.

Enrage timers is a strategy check in D3 from what the devs are telling us.

However, the development background of what these devs are telling me, I would not be surprised if there is a correlation between WoW and D3 enrage timers.
05/06/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Bashiok
People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


It's vastly inefficient to spend one hour to kite the skeleton for an "item that matters." You could be slaying lots of champions with that one hour. If people want to go the long way of doing things, then kudos to them. Don't force people to be efficient if they don't want to be.
Or Enrage timers are a genius idea to give players an added challenge by choice if they so desire.

Also best loot can drop off bosses using Nephalim Valor buff.
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


Dude.....

I think I speak for all fish out of water that can't do anything but flop, why the hate?

We're paying customers too and just because we have found ourselves in a precarious situation that results in flopping, doesn't mean we don't have feelings too.
90 Worgen Mage
8000

This is rather unproductive.


You mean the entire thread, or your pointless whining?
I know what some boss enrage timers are, but to save spoilers I'll transpose it onto the Skeleton King. So, as an imaginary example, in Inferno if you don't kill the Skeleton King within four minutes he starts spawning three times the amount of skeletons. That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.

People kiting the Skeleton King around for an hour with their level 3 characters is fun to see. It's not fun when it's level 60's at end game and item drops matter. To make these kills and thus a character's progression matter we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game.


So it makes the encounter more difficult but still possible and doesn't do so in a way that's "ok... X mins reached SUPER MODE ACTIVATE"? Sounds pretty good to me.
Spawning more skeletons or doing upgraded attacks as the fight progresses keeps things fresh, so I'm all for this sort of thing :)

Thanks for the example!
Edited by Kyattsu#6217 on 5/6/2012 11:02 AM PDT
Haha nice to see a Blue post in here. I was thinking about enrage timers last night and had a few thoughts. The idea behind enrage timers is to prevent people who are not ready for something from doing it other than intended. D2 actually has a few examples if you think a little more broadly.

1. In D2 LOD in the world stone keep if you stayed in 1 spot to long Baal would Poison you.
2. In the first part of Act 5 if you were not moving you would get hit by catapults.
3. Spike traps and poison projectiles if you got stuck with a overly defensive build in one of these traps effect area it made things more complicated.

Also ubers and big D had massive health regen rates. Aswell as later they made it so if you Left an area enemies would regen health.
Edited by Redpsycho#1543 on 5/6/2012 11:04 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
7120
05/06/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Bashiok
That creates a much tougher situation, but it's one you could very well handle if played right.


^
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]