Diablo® III

Tough as Nails > Nerves of Steel

Posts: 2
So I was looking at these 2 skills and could not see why they have both of them.

In the Beta a Barb gets 2 Vitality a level. So by level 60 he would have 120 base vitality. Lets say he has +180 vitality on top of that from gear. So Nerves of Steel increases Armor by %100 of Vitality. So I would only get +300 armor at level 60?

Result: +300 armor

The armor of the basic items for a level 60 is about 400-500 for big pieces like pants and legs, and about 200-300 for small pieces like feet and hands. So a lvl 60 would have at least 3000 armor with basic gear.

Tough as Nails increases armor by %25 and Thorns damage by %50. So %25 of my total of 3000 armor would be 750 armor added.

Result: +750 Armor and Thorns dmg +%50

Nerves of steel is just a crap skill. You would have to get your Vitality to 750, just to get the same armor bonus that Tough as Nails gives. Plus Tough as Nails has the +%50 throns dmg.

There are way better defensive passives to pick like Superstition and Relentless. Nerves of Steel is just an extremely weak passive skill and needs to either be completly changed to something new, since we already have a +armor passive. Or they need to at least increase the skill to %200-%250 of Vitality.
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Dude... a level 17 item can give 30 vita.
I imagine inferno gear will likely give hundreds. 2000 vitality at 60 would be closer to the truth.
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Posts: 189
Supposedly there is a SS of a lvl 60 barb with around 500 vit but we really don't know what the actual numbers are going to be.

I don't think you start out with 0 vit and I think 180 may be on the low side for a reasonably kitted max lvl barb, especially if you go for more of a tanky type build.

However I do agree with your conclusion and you didn't even take into account the shield, another almost 1k armor, and affixes on gear which I would think would be included before tough as nails is calculated.

Really? 2k seems a bit extreme to me but then I don't have much info to go on.
Edited by Fellspar#1461 on 5/4/2012 1:57 AM PDT
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you'll have something like 1200-1800 vitality from what i've read.
But even so, 1 armor point is low value. I estimate that with a shield you'll have something like 7k armor. Giving ToN more value than NoS. Without a shield, it could be a tossup. That would certainly make sense.

Is it still 10 hp per 1 vit?

The Mythic Health Potions give 12,500 life http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/mythic-health-potion

I'd guess 12,500 would nearly fill an entire health bulb for a low HP class. Barb will likely have more, so a health pool of 20,000 seems entirely possible (2k vit)
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Posts: 647
Sure.. one may be higher than the other and it's just not reasonable to take the other... if you're only taking one. Take BOTH!
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Reposting from another thread:

This page has good information regarding armor and resistances:


Nerves of steel is by far the best passive for mitigation. Most people expect that primary stats at 60 will be at ~2000, and this may even be a low estimate. As datamining shows affixes can get up to +200 Vit on a single item.


To get a 2000 armor increase from Tough as Nails then your base amount would need to be at 8000 which is highly unlikely. More to the point if you did have 8000 armor then you would already have 73% mitigation from armor and another 2000 would only bump that to 77%. At that point it is not even worth taking.

The only reason to use Tough as Nails is to amplify Thorns damage. The items page has a Radiant Star Topaz giving 1800 damage per hit. The 50% video showed a Barb using a one socket weapon and two socket shield, so we know we could at least use 3 Topaz for Thorns for 5400 damage a hit. Tough as Nails would increase this to 8100. Now we dont know how much life mobs are going to have in later difficulties, but just thinking about how much damage is listed on weapons currently in the item page and the current damage calculations for skills 8100 damage to anything dumb enough to hit you seems pretty good at the moment, and it may even be more than that if you can in fact get more slots on weapons/shields.
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Yes, you are correct. Nerves of steel doesn't fare well on naked characters. Good observation.
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