Diablo® III

Forced Gearchecks & Inferno Progression

Posts: 11,515
Completing inferno A4 should really be reserved for the top 1% or so of players in the best gear in game anyways.

Without a ladder system, how far you get in inferno is basically the closest thing to a ladder.
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90 Worgen Priest
9065
Posts: 13,712
Completing inferno A4 should really be reserved for the top 1% or so of players in the best gear in game anyways.

Without a ladder system, how far you get in inferno is basically the closest thing to a ladder.
Agreed!
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85 Human Death Knight
5855
Posts: 245
Gear has always been a part of progression in Diablo. Well, unless you were a sorcerer and had oodles of mana potions.

Anyway, I think people are worried about things prematurely. It's premature conclusionation!
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Without a ladder system, how far you get in inferno is basically the closest thing to a ladder.


Don't forget about achievements.
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05/05/2012 05:45 PMPosted by Crcrc
Yea man, no gear progression in D2... I rocked Lenymo and Tarns helm to 99


When they say you'll need to gear up in hell, I fully expect it to mean you'll need to spend time farming hell looking for good rolls on blues / yellows to replace the stuff you were able to live with up until now. Because to be fair there's no such thing as "tier" gear in D3 in regards to how WoW uses the term - its just the same way to refer to light plate in X difficulty vs Archon plate in the later one. It won't matter what art-tier an item belongs to, as long as its powerful.

You'll just need a certain amount of good gear to make any progress, and that's been the case throughout. Inferno just has much steeper curves on how outdated a piece can be before its a liablility :)

And as far as the "1% of the population seeing last act inferno"... yeah, that's not gonna happen. What will matter is how fast you get there, cause everyone will eventually.
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Posts: 107
I don't need to farm anything in hell or inferno!!!

I haz bunches of money to buy all the gear I need to roflstomp in inferno act 4.

GG Inferno!
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Posts: 291
My $0.02 was that D2 had some unbalanced stats, in the sense that their worth to players was much greater than the value assigned by the game.

Best example of this I can think being pre nerf Buriza which was arguably below average as an end game item, except when paired with guided shot (for the uninitiated, the bow had a 100% chance to pierce targets and was able to be combined with a seeking shot such that single target DPS was multiplied many times over making it capable of taking down hell bosses in a few shots). There are other examples, alot of unique MF gear, the +teleport runeword and +tree gear for certain builds.

This kept the items relevant for reasons other than pure DPS output.

D3 may well have these as well. You can cite the need to progress tier gear but until you have the full picture of where uniques and exceptionals will be at, it's hard to start decrying gearchecks.
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What still amazes me is that anyone can claim any measure of skill in a click-fest like Diablo. Are you guys that starved for self-validation? Gear progression is part of the game, and always has been. Claiming skill as a feature of your play in Diablo is similar to the kid who feels good about being awarded a trophy at the end of year for turning up each day to school.

Diablo is a lucky dip gear hunt. Pretty much the only thing not available via RNG is an e-peen.
Edited by t0lkien#1368 on 5/5/2012 8:17 PM PDT
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@Grashnak

So would you say that D3 would be better off if instaed of having the right gear, you would only need to pick the right skill and spam that? What you'er wanting is to make the skill power independent form gear and so powerfull that you don't even need gear, just to google a spec? How exactly is that better?


In response to this, please see the post directly above yours.


Got it. Now I'm finally starting to catch on. You are thinking that just because set gear exists it must be the best. I dont think that will be the case. You might find find better rares that just happened to get the stats you are looking for. You do need to have level appropriate gear that supports your build. I don't see a problem with that.

Yes Diablo has never been about requiring gear to progress, but Diablo has also never had skill damagt be based mostly on your gear (as far as I can remember) and it has never had Inferno difficulty. If some people are not happy with it, Jay is for once giving the community qwhat they want in a way that makes the most sense (and can be finished within deadlines :).
Edited by Grashnak#1410 on 5/5/2012 8:55 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
16415
Posts: 5,784
05/05/2012 08:16 PMPosted by t0lkien
Pretty much the only thing not available via RNG is an e-peen.

Really? You have no control over the outcome of anything that happens in the game?

I'm not gonna pretend the Diablo games demand more of someone than any other video game out there, but it's not like you have nothing to do with what happens.
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Until the items page is finally updated, we really are not sure what items are what tier. Whatever the extra tier items from lvl 61, 62, and 63 are...we really have nothing to go on except for idle speculation.
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Posts: 109
In true poster nature i haven't read throught the whole thread but i interpret Jay's post and what has been said earlier about inferno as this:
Anything high tier item can drop in act 4 hell but each act in inferno has an even higher chance to drop. So I see it as farm until i find one god item move on, farm until i find two more and move on, farm until i find 3 more... etc. So by the end you will fully decked out but with hours of farming you can get there in easier difficulties/acts, it will just take a lot longer. Idk though this is all just speculation.
/my 2 cents
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I haven't read through the entire thread so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but you guys need to stop thinking of diablo tiers in terms of WoW tiers.

A tier may be the next "level of armor" but it may not be the best for your class. In D2 each tier had its own unique item (obviously since they were called uniques.) I'm not sure in D3 if there will only be one legendary per tier, but i can't imagine there will be one for each class. For example in D2 one of the best MF helms was a Harlequin Crest Shaco, because of its modifiers and the fact that it had 2 sockets. It was the first "tier" helm in hell, it was the elite version of a cap, the most basic helm.

Remember that just because an item is a higher tier doesn't mean it gives +5 more strength and +5 more vitality and maybe some damage, there are tons of modifiers in this game. It's not WoW.
Edited by Thunar#1439 on 5/5/2012 9:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 250
Again, based on Jay Wilson's statements you need to farm each difficulty in Inferno to move on to the next one. From that statement we can assume that there is something about the stats on that tier's gear that is necessary to be successful in the next Act.

Additionally, with Bash confirming that enrage timers are not just 30 minute things but are more like "4 minutes" it looks like if you don't have the gear and you don't have the required DPS then you are out of luck. Goodbye viable builds that weren't centered around being top DPS.
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Community Manager
Posts: 3,583
There's a confusion of terms making this an issue, but it's really not one.

We separate out 'item tiers' for their visual appearance first and foremost. We have a number of "armor sets" (18?) in the game that match visually, and so we call them 'tiers' because there's no real better way to say it. When all of your items are from that 'tier', you'll match. That doesn't directly determine their stats, though.

They're spread out in a logical progression, and items get more awesome looking as you go further in the game. Ipso facto the higher the visual tier the better chance it's a more powerful item, but it doesn't preclude the possibility of it being worse. You can absolutely find an item from a visual tier back in Hell difficulty that's better than an item using a later visual tier in Inferno.

It's best to just expunge the term 'tier' from your minds, because it really has nothing to do with any kind of stair step or item upgrade approach. It's just models and textures.
Edited by Bashiok on 5/6/2012 11:39 AM PDT
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Posts: 130
There's a confusion of terms making this an issue, but it's really not one.

We separate out 'item tiers' for their visual appearance first and foremost. We have a number of "armor sets" (18?) in the game that match visually, and so we call them 'tiers' because there's no real better way to say it. When all of your items are from that 'tier', you'll match. That doesn't directly determine their stats, though.

They're spread out in a logical progression, and items get more awesome looking as you go further in the game. Ipso facto the higher the visual tier the better chance it's a more powerful item, but it doesn't preclude the possibility of it being worse. You can absolutely find an item from a visual tier back in Hell difficulty that's better than an item using a later visual tier in Inferno.

It's best to just expunge the term 'tier' from your minds, because it really has nothing to do with any kind of stair step or item upgrade approach. It's just models and textures.


Awesome! Good to know
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There's a confusion of terms making this an issue, but it's really not one.

We separate out 'item tiers' for their visual appearance first and foremost. We have a number of "armor sets" (18?) in the game that match visually, and so we call them 'tiers' because there's no real better way to say it. When all of your items are from that 'tier', you'll match. That doesn't directly determine their stats, though.

They're spread out in a logical progression, and items get more awesome looking as you go further in the game. Ipso facto the higher the visual tier the better chance it's a more powerful item, but it doesn't preclude the possibility of it being worse. You can absolutely find an item from a visual tier back in Hell difficulty that's better than an item using a later visual tier in Inferno.

It's best to just expunge the term 'tier' from your minds, because it really has nothing to do with any kind of stair step or item upgrade approach. It's just models and textures.
What about reference to multiple tiers of gear in Inferno difficulty? Should I replace my preconceived notions of MMO-esque gear tiers for that this specific instance?

Likewise, is Inferno gear exclusive to Inferno, or does it have a chance to drop in Hell, as stated here?

Item pools are not limited by Act, or Boss, or anything like that. While you'll have a better chance to get better items in Act IV Inferno, you could get those same items in Act I, or even Hell.
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Posts: 471
05/06/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Bashiok
We have a number of "armor sets" (18?) in the game that match visually,


Will they be all linked by a common name so I know what to look out for?
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Posts: 250
There's a confusion of terms making this an issue, but it's really not one.

We separate out 'item tiers' for their visual appearance first and foremost. We have a number of "armor sets" (18?) in the game that match visually, and so we call them 'tiers' because there's no real better way to say it. When all of your items are from that 'tier', you'll match. That doesn't directly determine their stats, though.

They're spread out in a logical progression, and items get more awesome looking as you go further in the game. Ipso facto the higher the visual tier the better chance it's a more powerful item, but it doesn't preclude the possibility of it being worse. You can absolutely find an item from a visual tier back in Hell difficulty that's better than an item using a later visual tier in Inferno.

It's best to just expunge the term 'tier' from your minds, because it really has nothing to do with any kind of stair step or item upgrade approach. It's just models and textures.


Thank you for addressing that. While we're clearing up confusion - Earlier you had said that all gear would drop throughout Inferno, just that it would have a lower drop rate in the earlier Acts. I know plans change - and it would seem that this one has as well, based on Jay Wilson's recent interviews. In those interviews he basically says each Act in Inferno will have its own tier (and thus its own items). Can you clear up this discrepancy?
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