Diablo® III

Group Tank Build - Hell/Inferno

90 Troll Shaman
11485
http://d3db.com/tool/calculator/barbarian/15562

Working on a build for down the road when I'll be running as tank for a group of 4, with the idea of pure survival in mind and letting my teammates DPS down the mobs. I played with the idea of using some of the 'gain X life when mob dies' bonuses, but mobs will have so much health and die so slowly in inferno, that I don't anticipate they will be of much use.

Instead, I opted for 'bloodlust' and 'ignorance is bliss' since I will be constantly benefiting from those runes during combat. I included furious charge so I have an avoidance mechanism, which should have virtually no cooldown in most scenarios with the 'mericliess assult' rune. The others seem like obvious choices to me for a group tanking build.

There seems to be a debate between 'Tough as Nails' vs 'Nerves of Steel' for end game, with no consesus on what vitality levels will be. Since I don't know what my vitality rating will be in inferno, I'm currently sticking with TaN as the safer bet (I'll switch to NoS if that turns out to be the stronger of the two for end game). My only real concern right now, is that having both 'Cleave' and 'Rend' together won't be optimal for boss fights, and maybe I should switch out one or the other for a single target skill.

Thoughts?
Edited by Heckler#1957 on 5/10/2012 5:05 PM PDT
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Looks pretty good.

I'm not a fan of relentless when you don't have a spamable fury dump to use it with. I like it with Seismic Slam best, and I don't think it's a bad spender for a tank as it can have a lot of knockback or good chance of stun to give you some breathing room.
On the other hand you get your lifesteal from rend and it is worth twice as much when your below 20% so while it's not optimal I'm sure it'll work out fine.

I would say that since you're tanking and have threatening shout anyway you should probably go with demoralize. We really don't know how well 'tanking' is going to work out so not taking the only taunt available outside of monk's earth ally seems like it would be a mistake.

You're right, cleave and rend won't be optimal for boss/champ mobs, in fact they'll probably be pretty bad, but you say you're planning on playing as part of a party so you can choose to rely on the other members for that and I think that's reasonably valid.
On the other hand I don't think you're going to need the extra fury from cleave as rend isn't a big spender and you'll also be getting fury for being beat on. I could easily see you switching to frenzy with maniac to bump up your rend damage and thus your healing by a bit, vanguard for the extra bit of mobility, or smite for the stuns.

Because you aren't going to be doing great heaps of damage and you are going to be playing in a party you might think about swapping the ignorance is bliss rune for mob rule on ignore pain as when you need to hit your oh $#!@ button it's probably a good bet that your party members could use it too.

Lastly I'm not too crazy about WotB with striding giant. Striding giant kinda turns this into another oh $#!@ button when you already have relentless and ignore pain. I personally think you will get more mileage from war cry as it has good mitigation all the time, buffs our party as well, and is a good way to get some fury before a fight so you can drop a rend right away.

I ended up giving you more suggestions than I meant to so feel free to ignore any you don't agree with. GLHF and I look forward to seeing how well tanking works for us come next week.
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90 Human Priest
14525
Like what Fellspar said above, you don't have any fury dump, just the rend, that's it. You have so much fury generation. With cleave and extra fury gen, your passive that grants fury, shouts and other things.

If you are going for only survival, you may want another health gen in there somewhere, maybe a revenge or glyph something else to help you out.

This is what I'm gonna roll as for Inferno Tank build.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcVRkP!VbT!ZZaYbY

The group I'm rolling with is

Barb *Me*, Tank
Which Doctor
Wizard
Monk

What I plan on doing is pretty much just take the hits like a boss and just heal myself through it. I think the Monk has a heal ability but I'm not positive.

Reason behind the choices.

MOUSE SKILLS:

Cleave w/ extra fury generating. So I can keep using Rend every CD. This may change, depending on how much rage I receive from Revenge. I would change glyph to enemy movement speed being reduced to keep them near me and away from others.

Rend w/ % of damage being converted to health. So I can keep myself up through all the massive damage. Most fights are gonna consist of a crap ton of enemies. With 1 Rend strike you are coating 5+ maybe even 10+ enemies with it. Each tick will give you health back. That is a lot of health back.

ACTION BAR SKILLS:

Revenge w/ fury and health return. Since I'm melee, I'll be in the think of things. I'l be getting smacked a great deal and with each smack a 15% chance (which is huge with multiple enemies) to use Revenge. Same as Rend, each mob I hit will give me a % of health return. 10+ mobs 80% health return...game changer.

Ignore Pain w/ party getting CD as well. I choose the party getting this buff as well as me because you never know about certain points in the game. A boss could have an AoE, certain pulls could be all ranged mobs...you never know. It's better to prepare for the worst when it shows up then not be prepared for it at all.

War Cry w/ Max life increase and health regeneration. Same as above, a party wide buff that helps everyone. More armor, more health, and even health regeneration. Always keep the button on CD for more rage and in turn more rends.

Wrath of the Berserker w/ more dodge. This is kind of a Oh !@#$, super sayan pop CD's and hope you live type of ability. A proper tank CD that only contributes to yourself. Pop this at the start of bosses so ability may be up again near the end.

PASSIVE SKILLS:

Tough as Nails. Increased armor (Yes please!) as well as back damage on attackers. Like a Shield Spike in World of Warcraft when you block.

Nerves of Steel. Increased armor for all vitality you have (Again, yes please!). Not sure but may stack with Tough as Nails, give you even more armor.

Juggernaut. Many mobs fear, stun, charm, blah blah blah you. You can't use your abilities while feared, stunned, charmed, blah blah blah. So the possibilty of dying becomes greater. This reduces the duration of CC, as well as having a chance to give you health back. Great tank ability IMO.

As you can tell, I have put great thought into what I will be rolling as. I plan on beating inferno and this is what I will be running for multiple mobs. As for tank fights, I will be going more single target tanking unless boss calls otherwise.

Good luck in Diablo 3 everyone. See you in game.
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90 Undead Warlock
9270
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcYVgT!TbV!cZZaYZ
This is the tank build I plan on trying out with my group. Any thoughts?

I know one of my friends is going to be a monk not sure what the other 2 are going to choose. They haven't kept up on the game like my other friend and I. lol

Edit: I know it's heavy AoE but I figure most fights are going to be groups so figured heavy AoE might be the way to go. I guess we'll see in a few days. lol
Another variation but instead of Earthquake took WotB
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcYVgP!TbV!cZZaYb
Edited by Pestilence#1143 on 5/11/2012 11:53 AM PDT
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcgVkP!TeV!ZZYacY

This is a much more well rounded build for those just beginning inferno imo. Many of you are failing to account for damage other than physical, something that will be a huge factor throughout the game, especially inferno.

Actives:

Cleave + Reaping Swing -> Increased Fury Generation to Feed Rend Spam

Rend + Bloodlust -> Mass Damaging AoE Life Regen

Threatening Shout + Demoralize -> Reduced Enemy Damage and AoE Taunt

Revenge + Vengeance is Mine -> More AoE Damage With Life and Fury Regen

War Cry + Impunity -> +20% Armor for you and team and +50% Resistances for you

Wrath of the Berserker + Striding Giant -> Oh $H!T Cooldown with +60% Dodge that also Helps Burn Down Enemies and Bosses to Beat Enrage Timers As Opposed to Ignore Pain

Passives:

Juggernaut: Works well for surviving CC

Superstition: Reduces All Non-Physical Damage by 20% and Ranged/Elemental Attacks Can Regen Fury (Very Important Passive)

Tough As Nails: Increased Armor by 25% and Thorns damage by 50%

(Nerves of Steel is left out because it seems like it scales really well but will most likely fall short of other passives until you start getting inferno gear with more Vitality on it.)

I think this build has just the right amount of group utility (in the form of Threatening Shout AoE Taunt and War Cry +20% Ally Armor) with Self-Sufficiency/Regen and AoE Damage (Rend and Revenge), provides great survivability covering all major areas of damage reduction (physical/elemental/??? though threatening shout, War cry, and passives), and has the best all-around cooldown in the barbarians arsenal (Berserker Rage) making it one the best all around barbarian group tank builds for Inferno ATM. Single target is a little lacking but that is what your squishy allies are for. Besides, you will be perfect for dealing with adds that occur on most boss fights.
Edited by Seraph#1464 on 5/11/2012 12:41 PM PDT
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No matter what you're doing, your build MUST include a proper fury dump. You will be generating resources in (nearly) any build, so its inefficient to not spend that fury appropriately. This is why builds that are too focused won't work in Inferno, where every point counts. Too much defense, and you're a liability in those situations where you CAN'T absorb damage for your party members. Too little defense and one bad decision will kill you.

Have you sen the footage? Inferno mobs can kill you in little more than 2 seconds if you're not intelligent.

The mobs are DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY to wreak havoc, seek you out and kill you. You only need one grenadier Elite to completely destroy all your glass canon Wizards and Demon Hunters, and no amount of tanking on a Barb or Monk's part will keep them safe. Grenadiers are made to shoot OVER a tank.

It's my advice that you MUST have one ability for each of these two situations: you're in trouble, and need to get away fast; and your friend's in trouble and needs to get away fast. Two more abilities need to be: single target DPS and AOE DPS. A fifth ability needs to be concerned with when you have no resources. A sixth is ... well whatever you want.
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90 Undead Warlock
9270
No matter what you're doing, your build MUST include a proper fury dump. You will be generating resources in (nearly) any build, so its inefficient to not spend that fury appropriately. This is why builds that are too focused won't work in Inferno, where every point counts. Too much defense, and you're a liability in those situations where you CAN'T absorb damage for your party members. Too little defense and one bad decision will kill you.

Have you sen the footage? Inferno mobs can kill you in little more than 2 seconds if you're not intelligent.

The mobs are DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY to wreak havoc, seek you out and kill you. You only need one grenadier Elite to completely destroy all your glass canon Wizards and Demon Hunters, and no amount of tanking on a Barb or Monk's part will keep them safe. Grenadiers are made to shoot OVER a tank.

It's my advice that you MUST have one ability for each of these two situations: you're in trouble, and need to get away fast; and your friend's in trouble and needs to get away fast. Two more abilities need to be: single target DPS and AOE DPS. A fifth ability needs to be concerned with when you have no resources. A sixth is ... well whatever you want.


How can you say any of this is total fact? Have you played it? Secondly supposedly there's a chance in inferno of straight being one shotted regardless of your abilities, whether too damage based or too defense based and regardless of perceived intelligence.

For your comment on the grenadier you have a good point, so use some of your intelligence and make them a prime target. I don't know about anybody else but I believe ranged mobs should always be first to die period, especially caster types.

On your last point yes each person should still have a mobility skill to run in a pinch and assuming you're in a group I don't think you'll NEED a single target and AoE ability. It also sounds to me like they've made this game to be able to play it however the hell you want to play, you wanna be AoE damage? You can do that. You want to be single target damage? you can do that. You want to balance single target and AoE? Have at it.

My point is you are emphasizing words like MUST and NEED and I don't think you know any more than anyone else about what will and won't work. I think it will come down to how well you know your skills and how well your group knows theirs.
Edited by Pestilence#1143 on 5/11/2012 2:51 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
7320
No matter what you're doing, your build MUST include a proper fury dump. You will be generating resources in (nearly) any build, so its inefficient to not spend that fury appropriately. This is why builds that are too focused won't work in Inferno, where every point counts. Too much defense, and you're a liability in those situations where you CAN'T absorb damage for your party members. Too little defense and one bad decision will kill you.

Have you sen the footage? Inferno mobs can kill you in little more than 2 seconds if you're not intelligent.

The mobs are DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY to wreak havoc, seek you out and kill you. You only need one grenadier Elite to completely destroy all your glass canon Wizards and Demon Hunters, and no amount of tanking on a Barb or Monk's part will keep them safe. Grenadiers are made to shoot OVER a tank.

It's my advice that you MUST have one ability for each of these two situations: you're in trouble, and need to get away fast; and your friend's in trouble and needs to get away fast. Two more abilities need to be: single target DPS and AOE DPS. A fifth ability needs to be concerned with when you have no resources. A sixth is ... well whatever you want.


How can you say any of this is total fact? Have you played it? Secondly supposedly there's a chance in inferno of straight being one shotted regardless of your abilities, whether too damage based or too defense based and regardless of perceived intelligence.

For your comment on the grenadier you have a good point, so use some of your intelligence and make them a prime target. I don't know about anybody else but I believe ranged mobs should always be first to die period, especially caster types.

On your last point yes each person should still have a mobility skill to run in a pinch and assuming you're in a group I don't think you'll NEED a single target and AoE ability. It also sounds to me like they've made this game to be able to play it however the hell you want to play, you wanna be AoE damage? You can do that. You want to be single target damage? you can do that. You want to balance single target and AoE? Have at it.

My point is you are emphasizing words like MUST and NEED and I don't think you know any more than anyone else about what will and won't work. I think it will come down to how well you know your skills and how well your group knows theirs.


Because they are facts. Have you watched the inferno vidoes the dev's made? Wake up.

They said you need those things specifically...

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/05/06/diablo-iii-blizzards-top-tips-for-inferno-mode
Edited by Zulagin#1925 on 5/11/2012 5:52 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
8950


Because they are facts. Have you watched the inferno vidoes the dev's made? Wake up.

They said you need those things specifically...

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/05/06/diablo-iii-blizzards-top-tips-for-inferno-mode


No, they aren't facts. YOU need to "wake up" and stop being ignorant. The point Vaugnard was trying to make was that it's still all just speculation at this point. Period. Even if you watch video's of Dev's playing Inferno, there's no way to effectively gauge their skill level and then justify the abilities they do or don't use as being essential or not.

You can theorycraft all you'd like, but the only facts about Diablo 3's Inferno difficulty level is that it's hard. Beyond that, and until the game is actually released, it's just a guessing game.
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90 Tauren Druid
7320
Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...

"You absolutely need single target damage"
"You also need AoE abilities"
"You need defensive abilities"

Notice the word "NEED"??
herp derp, wake up.
Edited by Zulagin#1925 on 5/11/2012 6:53 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
9270
Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...


In all fairness the devs have said a lot of things that have turned out to not be true. So there you have it.
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While I agree with most of the points Zulaginn is making about designing balanced builds, I disagree that anything Jay Wilson says can be trusted.

Heck the wizard only has 3 single target spells. One of them being a signature and the other two can be runed out to area damage instead. Not to mention their damage isn't significantly higher than the area spell damaging options. I sincerely doubt blizzards intention was to force you to always use one of these 3 spells in your build.

He further goes on to say that blizzard arbitrarily doubled the values after testing, implying that they then called it a day. Seriously no game developer is this stupid. Maybe they doubled it maybe they didn't, but testing would most certainly have continued after such a monumentous change.

Bottom Line: Just because Jay Wilson said it, doesn't mean it's true.
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05/11/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Krazymonkey
This is a much more well rounded build for those just beginning inferno imo. Many of you are failing to account for damage other than physical, something that will be a huge factor throughout the game, especially inferno.


You know armor mitigates all damage sources, right?
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90 Tauren Druid
7320
Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...


In all fairness the devs have said a lot of things that have turned out to not be true. So there you have it.


During the development of the game when things are always changing. This video is new and after they've had the finishing touches on the game.

This is fact.

While I agree with most of the points Zulaginn is making about designing balanced builds, I disagree that anything Jay Wilson says can be trusted.

Heck the wizard only has 3 single target spells. One of them being a signature and the other two can be runed out to area damage instead. Not to mention their damage isn't significantly higher than the area spell damaging options. I sincerely doubt blizzards intention was to force you to always use one of these 3 spells in your build.

He further goes on to say that blizzard arbitrarily doubled the values after testing, implying that they then called it a day. Seriously no game developer is this stupid. Maybe they doubled it maybe they didn't, but testing would most certainly have continued after such a monumentous change.

Bottom Line: Just because Jay Wilson said it, doesn't mean it's true.


Why not? Inferno is suppose to be stupid hard and not for the average gamer to complete (which they've said many times over). You're going to have to pull out all the stops and do things unconventional. He means that because it's true. There's always going to be players out there better so why have the game's difficulty based on such a small group of individuals?

"you think it's hard?" - dev

"f*** yeah we can't beat it." - blizzard employee #000152B

"great, we'll double the difficulty because there's going to be some crazy !@# mother f***ers who will." - dev
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90 Orc Warrior
8950
Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...

"You absolutely need single target damage"
"You also need AoE abilities"
"You need defensive abilities"

Notice the word "NEED"??
herp derp, wake up.


Ok, great. And is Jay Wilson some Olympic caliber gamer who's beaten Diablo 3's Inferno difficulty numerous times with every character.... while naked? Consider your source. You can't critique someone's opinions about this game by claiming to have factual evidence without actually having concrete and sufficient data to prove your case. Word of mouth from two or three dev's does not classify as "sufficient." But I guess you have everything figured out, huh? God, you sound like a Republican.
Edited by GodsHand#1676 on 5/12/2012 1:48 PM PDT
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*sigh*

The reason they wouldn't arbitrarily double the difficulty is because that could result in the game setting being -impossible- not just really hard. Let's say they doubled the damage and health on all the enemies without further testing.

It is conceivable that doubling these values against a group of enemies, or against certain enemy skills would make death unavoidable regardless of player skill. It is -easy- to accidently program an enemy with attack values too high to survive.

Even if they had some idea of the effect there are other smaller factors to consider such as resource management and meeting 'enrage' timers. All of this would require further testing.

Therefore even if they doubled it (which I doubt) they wouldn't simply stop testing.

Jay also talks about single target and aoe damage like they are a unique choice, when they are not. The vast majority of skills that consume resources inflict area damage. There are only a very small number of skills that specifically inflict damage to a single target and some of these require specific runes to do so, making his comment about needing aoe and single target silly.

I was trying to encourage you to argue your point from another angle.
Edited by CdrRogdan#1818 on 5/12/2012 2:08 PM PDT
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Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...

"You absolutely need single target damage"
"You also need AoE abilities"
"You need defensive abilities"

Notice the word "NEED"??
herp derp, wake up.


If you are in a group, replace all "yous" with "your team." A barb could go all AOE and defense, and have another member make up the single target DPS.
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90 Tauren Druid
7320
Watch the video, listen. I know it's hard.

EDIT: Some key lines Jay says...

"You absolutely need single target damage"
"You also need AoE abilities"
"You need defensive abilities"

Notice the word "NEED"??
herp derp, wake up.


Ok, great. And is Jay Wilson some Olympic caliber gamer who's beaten Diablo 3's Inferno difficulty numerous times with every character.... while naked? Consider your source. You can't critique someone's opinions about this game by claiming to have factual evidence without actually having concrete and sufficient data to prove your case. Word of mouth from two or three dev's does not classify as "sufficient." But I guess you have everything figured out, huh? God, you sound like a Republican.


Haha, try hard.
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90 Orc Warrior
8950

Haha, try hard.


Just as I expected. You ain't got Sh!t.
Edited by GodsHand#1676 on 5/12/2012 6:27 PM PDT
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your builds make me want to facepalm
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