Diablo® III

Tying Wrath in to the Games!

Yes, I know Wrath happened Eons before Sanctuary came about, but I'm seeing something here. A plot within a plot. Let me explain.

In Wrath, we see that Tyrael, along with at least Auriel's support, has the idea of capturing a Prime Evil to give the Angels a tactical advantage in the eternal conflict. He has one problem with this plan: Imperious, who would rather just kill any Demon at hand outright. Furthermore, Imperious seems to have little regard for the will of his brethren and sister on council. A side from what we see in Wrath, when the Council sat in judgement, ready to determine the fate of Humanity, he was perfectly fine with the idea of wiping out Humanity when he though that Tyrael was on his side, despite the fact that that would have meant a tie, with two votes for humanity and one abstaintion. This shows that Imperious holds himself somewhat above the rest of the council. Tyrael has to get around that if he wants to imprison a prime Evil.

Fast forward a bit, and lo and behold, Tyrael has another opportunity to imprison a Prime Evil. All three of them in fact. By giving the Soulstones to the Horadrim, Tyrael gets to both aid humanity, whom he has a soft spot for, and, he gets to have his eternity long dream of having prime Evils imprisoned.

However, in doing this, he's doubly getting on Imperiouses bad side. There are two issues where the two of them have disagreed that we've been shown, and Tyrael just went behind Imperious' back with both of them. Given both Imperious' ego and how well the whole Soulstone plan went for the Angels, is it any wonder at all that Justice is falling on the World of Men?

When you take this into account that this division was started by Diablo in Wrath, and that the whle Soulstone Fiasco was part of a master plan on the part of the Prime Evils, and we've got one heck of an evil plan going on here.
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I agree with you, but I think Tyrael has more than "a soft spot" for humans, and Tyrael and Imperius disagree on what to do with the humans.

Imperius sees us as a threat, so he will handle us in the only way he can, which is destroying us. Tyrael, having much more foresight than Imperius, realizes that we are the key to the Eternal Conflict. I believe that the reason he has been helping us isn't that he like humans, but rather he is trying to get us on the side of the heavans so we can change the tide of the eternal conflict.
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I agree with you, but I think Tyrael has more than "a soft spot" for humans, and Tyrael and Imperius disagree on what to do with the humans.

Imperius sees us as a threat, so he will handle us in the only way he can, which is destroying us. Tyrael, having much more foresight than Imperius, realizes that we are the key to the Eternal Conflict. I believe that the reason he has been helping us isn't that he like humans, but rather he is trying to get us on the side of the heavans so we can change the tide of the eternal conflict.


I can see that. Tyrael certainly seems to have a better grasp of the Big Picture and more strategic sense than Imperious. However, Imperious seems to sort to do whatever he wants unless there is overwhelming opposition to his ideas from the council. It's almost like what the Star Wars prequel trilogy would have been like if Anakin was Grand-Master. The impulsive one seems to be dominating the group. I have to wonder if Imperious is actually the head of the council, or if he just thinks he is and has such a dominating personality that the others don't challenge him that much.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
as much as I like Tyrael, I think humans need to be wary of him as much as we are of demons. Don't get me wrong he has stood for humans over and over again and thus his actions show his intent. But in a way he is no different from the prime evils in that they both plot and scheme behind the scenes, and use us as pawns in the eternal conflict.

we see the demons as evil because they do things to us that we find horrific from our perspective. we see Tyrael as good be cause he has done things that we find heroic and helpful from our perspective.

The perspective that we need to see is that angles and demons have been fighting for eons and now there is a new piece on the board and a very powerful piece at that. either side will fight to posses it and use it to their advantage. neither side takes into account that the new piece might not want to play and would rather be left alone. neither side is content to let the new piece be and will either control the new piece or destroy it.
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This is a great discussion overall, but I think there's some trending confusion about the assumed roles and perspectives that each side holds about Sanctuary and Humanity.

Imperius doesn't necessarily see humans as a 'threat' (even though that may or may not be true). His primary concern is that Humanity is unnatural. It shouldn't exist. Any being born of both Angel and Demon blood may as well be a child of chaos, and must be eliminated.

The Demons truly see Sanctuary as a tool. Their sole purpose is to either turn the humans against the High Heavens or destroy them outright. Its a pretty straight-shooting philosophy on their side.

Tyrael held a different opinion. While originally he sided in favor of the elimination of Sanctuary, he changed his vote in the last few moments of the Sin War. It's not that he sees them as a tool or weapon to use against the demons. He sees 'something greater' in Humanity that outshines both Angels AND Demons. He sees a capacity in Humanity that neither the High Heavens nor the Burning Hells have.

Someone else mentioned that Tyrael has greater foresight than Imperius. I agree with this. He is truly motivated by ending the Eternal War in a decisive victory, and the only way that would happen is by capturing and containing the Evils. Imperius, however, would naturally not want this. Think about it: he's the Archangel of Valor. If there is no war, there is no Valor to be earned or revered. I think it is interesting to note that Valor and Wrath are two sides of the same coin.

With that said, I totally agree with the OP that Blizzard has really turned around the plots of the first 2 games into a really intricate massive 'set-up' to something extraordinary to take place in this game or in a few expansions thereafter. We're going to see the fruits of Diablo's labor finally take hold in this game when he makes Imperius fall from grace.
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as much as I like Tyrael, I think humans need to be wary of him as much as we are of demons. Don't get me wrong he has stood for humans over and over again and thus his actions show his intent. But in a way he is no different from the prime evils in that they both plot and scheme behind the scenes, and use us as pawns in the eternal conflict.

we see the demons as evil because they do things to us that we find horrific from our perspective. we see Tyrael as good be cause he has done things that we find heroic and helpful from our perspective.

The perspective that we need to see is that angles and demons have been fighting for eons and now there is a new piece on the board and a very powerful piece at that. either side will fight to posses it and use it to their advantage. neither side takes into account that the new piece might not want to play and would rather be left alone. neither side is content to let the new piece be and will either control the new piece or destroy it.


I can see where you are coming from. Let me put it this way. In Lord of the Rings, Gandalf was a behind the scenes schemer who for all intents and purposes sent a couple of newby little people into hell to put an end to a great evil. But, in the end, I'd rather be on his side. I'd say the same about Tyrael. That said, I can understand the viewpoint of those who don't want to be played like that.

EDIT: In the mean time, does anyone else see Imperious as somewhat , oh how do I put it? He's both domineering and impulsive. It took a 60% majority to keep him from razing Sanctuary to the ground (IIRC, he would have done it with only a 40% tie, not even any kind of majority), he ignored Tyrael twice in wrath, and made a somewhat unilateral decision.
Edited by MadDogMitch#1602 on 5/11/2012 1:54 AM PDT
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