Diablo® III

Question about Trag'Oul

85 Blood Elf Paladin
9765
Posts: 116
I'm still pretty new to Diablo lore (which I have to say is a pretty great story) and was curious about Trag'Oul.

I know he's meant to be a mysterious character in the lore and I was reading through my recently acquired Book of Cain (hooray!), when I came upon the nephalem Rathma. From what I've read on these forums about Trag'Oul and the description of Rathma in the Book of Cain, I can't help but wonder what connection these two characters have with each other. There is a note in the book stating the necromancers who followed Rathma depicted him in the form a great serpent, which is also the only form I've ever seen Trag'Oul depicted as. Both characters seem to share the same concerns from a universal perspective and (correct me if I'm wrong) Trag'Oul assists/ed or teaches/tought necromancers.

Did I miss some lore where it is explicitly stated that these two characters are one in the same, or is it only implied in the Book of Cain? Or am I completely wrong in this assumption?
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Posts: 351
they are different entities. its explained in the sin war trilogy.

spoiler

trag'oul is a celestial dragon and is depicted as a constellation of stars that move in the shape of a dragon while in his realm. trag'oul claims to have came to being as a byproduct of the creation of sanctuary. nobody knew of his existence until he reached out to "rathma"

rathma is a nickname of sorts (i forget what it stands for but he picked the name due to the meaning of the word). rathma is the son of inarius and lilith. his original name was Linarian, until he changed his name to rathma after joining up with trag'oul. rathma is a nephalem just like the rest of the world, he is just first generation and was the first "necromancer".
Edited by Gulgoth#1362 on 5/11/2012 11:39 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9765
Posts: 116
thanks for the response, this clears up some confusion.

I really had no idea how long Trag'Oul had been around and the Book and Cain hardly said anything about either of them.

Their similarities make a lot more sense now that I know this. Thanks again :)
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Posts: 685
I don't think that it is detailed in the Book of Cain, but yes they are very much related. Rathma "knows" Trag'Oul very well and spends much time with him. I don't know if Rathma is still alive (my guess is not) but if he is he has probably spent the last 3000ish years just chilling with Trag'Oul. Trag'Oul is the closest thing to a god that sanctuary has and is the being that necromancers follow, advocating something called The Balance. The Balance dictates that neither side of the Eternal Conflict must gain advantage over the other. If you ever want to read The Sin War trilogy, this is explained in great detail.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9765
Posts: 116
05/12/2012 12:01 AMPosted by Pixel
If you ever want to read The Sin War trilogy, this is explained in great detail.


It's starting to sound like my next step.

I've picked up a little about this balance, I just wasn't sure what ultimately happened to Rathma. And since my source only spared 4-5 lines for either character I thought maybe a certain nephalem transcended to something more. I'm glad to know a little more about their connection now though.
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Posts: 351
Concerning Rathma: Rathma is still alive at the end of the sin wars. What he did or where he went is unknown as far as I know.

Sin War trilogy was a decent read, first book was my favorite. If you don't want to read it though here is a little more info.

Sin Wars spoiler and or another link to the Book of Cain:

The "book of Kalan" that Cain refers to in the "Book of Cain" is written by Kalan, Rathma's only known apprentice. Kalan is actually a nickname similar to Rathma. Kalan's original name is Mendelen, Uldyssians brother, both of whom are also mentioned in the "Book of Cain" I believe. Kalan assumes the name at the conclusion of the Sin Wars when he has to disappear because his memory was spared while the rest of the Edyrems memories and the worlds memory was wiped. Only the First generation of nephalem were allowed to keep thier memories because they were so few in number. Trag'oul however used his powers to prevent Mendelen/Kalan from having his memory wiped unknown to anyone else but Trag'oul, Rathma, and Kalan.

The conclusion of the sin wars has Rathma telling Kalan to collect followers and to teach them to uphold the balance. Rathma acts like he is going away, but it sounds like in the book of Cain that Rathma either hung out or checked on his apprentice and his followers in order for them to know of his existence, or it could be that they had only heard of him through Kalan and then maybe they thought he was Trag'oul or related to Trag'oul and just didn't know any better in order to draw him as a serpent (this is more likely). Rathma seemed immortal as far as aging was concerned since he was thousands of years old, and he was very powerful, either the most or second most powerful necromancer, possibly only succeeded in power by his apprentice Kalan.
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