Diablo® III

Comparing a Wizard to a Witch Doctor

Posts: 941
05/14/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Lovetap
My point Vixen, the other reindeer won't want to let you play their reindeer games if you force your opinions on them. You come with quite a bold statement, which is fine, but you then retaliate against opposing ideas, which is not.


When I am met with derisive responses such as...

Ok, now make a strong WD, and try to emulate it with the Wiz.
Phail theory-craft is phail theory-craft.


Wait, you can't make a Summon Wizard? So, a pet WD would be stronger than a Pet Wiz?
You made a build capitalizing on the Wizards strengths, then told us that Wizards are better than WD's.
I'm saying, make a build capitalizing on the WD strengths (cc, control, not to mention, near Wiz level AoE with bats and fog, if runed right), and see how Wizards stack up.

You clearly think Wiz's are better, and that's fine, play a Wiz. I won't hold it against you. But your logic as to why you think Wiz's are better, is flawed.


I am not going to respond kindly.
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Posts: 941
Lovetap:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aeXdfU!VZX!aa.Zcc

Give me a few minutes...(and pick a runeskill for Horrify)
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aeXdfU!VZX!aabZcc
The intent was more for PvP just as a heads up. PvM would more then likely be with pets, and I find harder to speculate without seeing spell effects.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aWdjTe!YeW!aaZZcc PvMish

I would have to assume that the mass confusion will end up granting 3 dogs often. Garg with that rune may be devastating look good depending on CD and if its AoE. Dart for Single target, Toads are a cheap aoe, and if they hit multiple targets on explosion, possible amazing skill. Haunt was up in the air skill, will I need mana with toads? Time will tell.
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Posts: 941
WD: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#aeXdfU!VZX!aabZcc
Wiz: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UigjOX!afb!bbYbYa


The intent was more for PvP just as a heads up. PvM would more then likely be with pets, and I find harder to speculate without seeing spell effects.

...well my intent was not to compare PvP since that is not part of the release...but will compare anyways

Damage Reduction
WD:
1) JF 20% flat all damage - up all the time
2) SH Resistances from 130 Int for each soul in stack - up part-time

Wiz:
1) Blur 20% flat only melee - up all the time
2) Energy Armor - 65% Armor increase, max single hit = 35% total life

Rebirth + OnDemand GTFO spells
WD:
1) Spirit Walk - 14% health heal, cannot be targeted, can be used 2 out of every 15 seconds
2) Spirit Vessel - rebirth once every 90 seconds, heals to 10% health

Wiz:
1) Slow Time - -20% EAS, -30% EMS, -90% Enemy Projectile Speed, CD reduced to 13.6 seconds, can be used 8 out of every 13.6 seconds
2) Familiar - below 35% health, absorbs 1 attack every 6 seconds

Damage Spells
WD:
1) Poison Dart (low cost): 60x3 (180% max)
2) Zombie Charger (high cost): 236% damage per bear, can hit multiple targets
3) Haunt (medium cost, can cast multiple): 48% weapon damage per second (assuming it is used 100% over 12 seconds), Total damage per cast: 575% weapon damage

Wiz:
1) Electrocute (free): 80% x 3 + (80% x 3 piercing) x N targets (can easily do UP TO 480%+ when hitting 3 targets (front) + 3 targets (behind))
2) Disintegrate (medium cost, can channel): 155% weapon damage per second + 395% AoE Explosion 35% of the time on killing blow
3) Familiar (medium cost): 10% weapon damage per second (20% every 2 seconds), Total damage: 10% x 300 seconds) = 3000% weapon damage (changes targets based on proximity)

Mana Leach
WD:
None

Wiz:
None

I think this will hurt WD much more than Wiz due to cost of Zombie Charger + Haunt

Life Leach
WD:
1) Haunt: 155 life/second per cast
2) Spirit Walk: 14% life every 15 seconds
3) Soul Harvest: 2171 life per soul (10855 max (if lucky 5-stack) every 15 seconds, can overheal)

Wiz:
1) Galvanizing Ward: 310 life/second whenever armor is up
2) Diamond Skin - absorbs 21,707 damage (no overheal), can be used for 6 out of every 12.75 seconds

WD ahead here but Diamond Skin while not technically a life leach, placed it in here to compare against Soul Harvest which serves similar purposes. From a defensive stand point Diamond Skin > Soul Harvest

Summary
DR: WD wins for Elemental, Wiz wins for Melee

Rebirth + OnDemand GTFO spells: Wiz wins IMO due to cooldowns, WD has protection passive once every 90 seconds but it is a rebirth which is good. Wiz gets Diamond Skin available to him 47% of the time, Slow Time available to him 59% of the time (and this makes up for the lack of elemental DR imo since that is almost always ranged), and the familiar absorbing an attack once every 6 seconds when below 35% health which will occur a lot more frequently than Spirit Vessel's killing blow save.

Damage
This depends on how you look at it, from a mana/AP efficiency stand point Wiz hands down - Piercing Electrocute is such a powerful ability nothing in the WD arsenal can compare to it.
If you look at an unlimited mana/AP standpoint WD will do more damage IMO, but this is where I feel Wiz > WD since this build has no Mana leach. Forgot to mention Soul Harvest which certainly boosts WD but to constantly get into melee range is dangerous as aforementioned.

Mana Leach
Tie - they both have none from what I can see

Life Leach
WD wins here, but I think it needs it due to the lack of on demand defensive abilities and more susceptibility to melee attacks, Diamond Skin keeps this category close.
Edited by DyerMaker#1587 on 5/14/2012 10:36 AM PDT
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I do believe that defensively, Wizards are unmatched with the amount of solid defensive abilities. I think they lack though, the ability to sustain enough damage. Wizard signature spells seem lacklustre now, and I'm unsure how long they can channel their hard hitting abilities at higher levels.

Things you overlooked though, Spirit vessel was more about the CD reduction than anything and Blood ritual.
I'll be weaving between SW and Horrify which are both reduced by 2secs, and the life leeches should keep me up during the time they are on CD. I anticipate Dart will be able to be used almost all the time, with great range and great damage, and hoping bears can be used as intended when melee get too close. I'm not sure what the mana pools are at max level, but I'm sure that I can cast the spells I want when I want.
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To be honest, I think the two would make a good pair. The Wizard whom can't be killed, and WD which is frustrating to chase.
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Posts: 941
good points on the CD reduction, it just sucks that WD has multiple passives for different CD reductions whereas Wiz has 1 all-encompassing. I also forgot about Blood Ritual, that helps a little bit with regards to mana efficiency at a cost of life which you seem to have covered with the life leaches.
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1) Electrocute (free): 80% x 3 + (80% x 3 piercing) x N targets (can easily do UP TO 480%+ when hitting 3 targets (front) + 3 targets (behind))
2) Disintegrate (medium cost, can channel): 155% weapon damage per second + 395% AoE Explosion 35% of the time on killing blow


I think your predicting large scale pvp. I am fairly certain they are planning just 4v4, so the likehood of that much damage is diminished if true, the disintegrate looking amazing, but with it only being like melee range it will probably only serve great purpose in PvM.
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Posts: 941
1) Electrocute (free): 80% x 3 + (80% x 3 piercing) x N targets (can easily do UP TO 480%+ when hitting 3 targets (front) + 3 targets (behind))
2) Disintegrate (medium cost, can channel): 155% weapon damage per second + 395% AoE Explosion 35% of the time on killing blow


I think your predicting large scale pvp. I am fairly certain they are planning just 4v4, so the likehood of that much damage is diminished if true, the disintegrate looking amazing, but with it only being like melee range it will probably only serve great purpose in PvM.

Yep the whole thread is meant for PvM (mentioned this earlier since PvP is not in release yet and has no timetable).
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Posts: 427
This is bad and you should feel bad.
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Posts: 941
latest Wiz build...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WZQYSX!aWg!YZaYca
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