Diablo® III

Why you only fight demons?

Posts: 871
So I've always had a little trouble following the diablo storyline (partly because I only played the 2nd one), but after looking up summaries online it makes a lot more sense to me. However I do still have 1 big question. Why do you only fight demons in sanctuary?
-Everyone says that neither angels nor demons are inherently good/evil, theyre just two different sides to the war
-Both sides found the entrance to Sanctuary

So why are demons the only ones trying to kill the Nephalem (the humans are what the Nephalem have devolved into, right?)?
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Posts: 1,131
So I've always had a little trouble following the diablo storyline (partly because I only played the 2nd one), but after looking up summaries online it makes a lot more sense to me. However I do still have 1 big question. Why do you only fight demons in sanctuary?
-Everyone says that neither angels nor demons are inherently good/evil, theyre just two different sides to the war
-Both sides found the entrance to Sanctuary

So why are demons the only ones trying to kill the Nephalem (the humans are what the Nephalem have devolved into, right?)?


Short, less imaginative answer: The whole Angels not being necessarily good/on our side is relatively new lore, only really brought up by the Sin War Trilogy. Up until then, including the games Diablo I and Diablo II, as far as I know, Angels were never indicated to be anything other than benevolent/on our side. So, they weren't a threat to us because they hadn't been described as that yet.

More involved answer: Humanity isn't necessarily good or evil. We get a choice in the matter, which makes us capable of being better than angels and worse than demons. So, Angels have a reason to be concerned about us being a bigger problem than Demons, and we do have room to look down on Angels, dependent on our choices.

to clear up some mis-conceptions, it should be noted that Angels (particularly those of the Angiris council) are embodiments of particular virtues: Justice, Hope, Valor, Wisdom, and Fate. As of yet, only one of those, Valor (Imperius), was particularly hostile to us. Imperius is the most warlike (his point is to engage in glorious combat against evil), and his impulse is to immediately fight and kill anything slightly demonic, consequences be damned.

That said, Imperius was outvoted, 3-1. Auriel, Angel of Hope, liked us right way, taking what seemed to be a maternal liking to us. I suppose you could draw some ties between maternal instinct and hope. What is more hopeful than a mother?

Ithereal, Angel of Fate, who finds us confusing, also voted to keep us around, seeing great potential for good in us. Actually, he thought we had more potential for good than Angels, which actually makes sense. Free will is the key. How good can you be if you don't have a choice. In the words of Ann(e) Shirley: "I'd rather have a man who could be evil, but wouldn't be." In other words, to choose righteousness is better than to be inherrently righteous.

Tyrael, Justice, while initially was perfectly fine with the idea of killing us all, saw the good in us, mostly in Uldyssian's actions, and has seen fit to fully ally with Humans. He does see our potential, and is impressed with our ability to choose. Granted, he pulls a lot of strings, using us as chess pieces against the Evils, but also does care somewhat for at least some of his chess pieces. He swore to look after the descendents of the Horadrim.

Finally, Malthael, Archangel of Wisdom abstained, not really caring. As I understand it, he used to be much more sympathetic, before the Worldstone was stolen. He then got into kind of a funk and started looking like the Grim Reaper. No one's seen him since it was destroyed.

So, in recap, 1 archangel is willing to go on a crusade/inquisition and kill us, seeing us as impure. 1 angel doesn't care, seeming to be going through a bit of an identity crisis. The others like us, have high hopes for us, and think we can be better than they are. One of which is our ally. Not exactly a picture of angels cleansing sanctuary of human life.

That said, I think there is some room for a bit more variety. Perhaps, with the worldstone blasted off the face of sanctuary, Malthael will completely embrace the Death Portfolio. Neither he nor Trag'oul, the Necromancer's Draconic Patron, have been seen since that fateful event. With the Lord of Destruction so intimately involved in that, perhaps will see a nice death crusade coming. That and I think Imperius has a part to play.

What would really do it for me though is a Demon, perhaps not Lord of Hell level, but a reasonably powerful Demon on level with say Lillith or Lucion, who is on humanity's side, but certainly not a "good-guy." One who doesn't mind siding against the Lords of Hell. Maybe Lillith could do it.
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Posts: 1,131
05/13/2012 05:17 PMPosted by SirGiff
The angels and the demons declared a truce long before the events of the first game. One of the stipulations of this truce was that neither side would be allowed to enter Sanctuary. We only fight demons because they are the only ones who've chosen to break this rule.


With the exception of Tyrael, who only broke it because the other side did. Of course, he's Archangel of Justice, not Law. Therefore, if he feels it's just, he does it, rules be damned.
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Posts: 871
Thanks for the huge reply maddog! Didnt quite answer my question, but I wasnt aware of the 3-1-1 thing

05/13/2012 05:17 PMPosted by SirGiff
The angels and the demons declared a truce long before the events of the first game. One of the stipulations of this truce was that neither side would be allowed to enter Sanctuary. We only fight demons because they are the only ones who've chosen to break this rule.

Ah okay. This explains it then

Do yall think we'll ever go around fighting angels as well as demonds or do you think itll always just be demons?
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Posts: 1,131
Thanks for the huge reply maddog! Didnt quite answer my question, but I wasnt aware of the 3-1-1 thing

The angels and the demons declared a truce long before the events of the first game. One of the stipulations of this truce was that neither side would be allowed to enter Sanctuary. We only fight demons because they are the only ones who've chosen to break this rule.

Ah okay. This explains it then

Do yall think we'll ever go around fighting angels as well as demonds or do you think itll always just be demons?


Maybe. Depends. Either Imperius or, maybe, given the right circumstances, Malthael could try it. Perhaps a Human or two (Nephalem) might go off the deep end and provoke them. We'll just have to wait and see.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
Posts: 2,745
Since Imperius wants to destroy the humans, we could easily see him
as a foe in the game. However, i would say that this is not the case.
Angels have been acting for mantaining the order. Attacking humans would be the case if they eventually agree that it is needed to mantain the order.

Since everything is fckd up right now, wisdom is lost, valor is fury and all, we will have much worse foes to fight against and creating any other source of fight would be tragical for both angels or humans.
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Posts: 412
I'm not sure we'll fight angels, and I can't see us directly fighting Imperius. He's a jerk, but he's a jerk who sits on his throne seething about things. If anything, it will take a lot of effort to get him involved in anything besides chasing about Big Red.

However, once we reach heaven I'm sure we'll have to fight some sort of angelic beings or guardians. Can't have a bunch of dirty humans trooping about getting into stuff. Sort of like the Barbarian champions we had to kill.
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I totally see Imperius as a boss enemy in an expansion. He totally fits the role of a mad-with-power-and-righteousness antagonist. Malthael could also be one. They could do a lot to develop his role into something creepy and original, he could be this wise old cynic who's convinced wiping out humanity needs to be done, for example.
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Up until then, including the games Diablo I and Diablo II, as far as I know, Angels were never indicated to be anything other than benevolent/on our side. So


Tyrael made it very clear he was working independently and possibly going rogue by helping the heroes in Diablo II he even mentioned not being able to help any further, basically because of management at one point in the Pandemonium Fortress.

Considering the Angels almost wiped out the humans from existence they're really not all that good.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15175
Posts: 3,823
05/13/2012 05:11 PMPosted by Maddog
Free will is the key. How good can you be if you don't have a choice. In the words of Ann(e) Shirley: "I'd rather have a man who could be evil, but wouldn't be." In other words, to choose righteousness is better than to be inherrently righteous.

What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
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Free will is the key. How good can you be if you don't have a choice. In the words of Ann(e) Shirley: "I'd rather have a man who could be evil, but wouldn't be." In other words, to choose righteousness is better than to be inherrently righteous.

What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
They have the same outcome. When I read that I thought it was a steaming pile of philosophical BS. Humanity can't be "better" or "good-er" than angels JUST because they chose to be good. It doesn't actually push them farther up the "good spectrum," it was just a bigger struggle to get to the same spot. Unless the angels really aren't all that good to begin with, then humans really couldn't aspire to be much better, they could only hope to emulate them, and would have a lot more trouble in doing so. So it's certainly commendable, even awe-inspiring, but it doesn't make them BETTER if all they have is the potential to do what angels inherently do, given that falling short of them is worse, and we're practically bound to do so.
Edited by Aries#1343 on 5/17/2012 1:59 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15175
Posts: 3,823
05/17/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Aries
They have the same outcome. When I read that I thought it was a steaming pile of philosophical BS. Humanity can't be "better" or "good-er" than angels JUST because they chose to be good. It doesn't actually push them farther up the "good spectrum," it was just a bigger struggle to get to the same spot. Unless the angels really aren't all that good to begin with, then humans really couldn't aspire to be much better, they could only hope to emulate them, and would have a lot more trouble in doing so. So it's certainly commendable, even awe-inspiring, but it doesn't make them BETTER if all they have is the potential to do what angels inherently do, given that falling short of them is worse, and we're practically bound to do so.

I was just quoting a wise old dragon from another well-known RPG. :P
Edited by Revenant#1367 on 5/17/2012 3:02 PM PDT
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Because besides Tyreal and that one that trains the enchantress and her sisters all the angels are to lazy to do anything.
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