Diablo® III

What exactly is the Wizard "exploit"??

85 Orc Death Knight
RoE
6195
Posts: 944
I love how people say "If there are 3 range or you stand in fire you die fast." That's true for ALL builds. Go stack res/armour/vit and see how many hits you can take on Inferno. See how long you can stand in the fire.

The fact is everyone is getting one shot in Inferno. Force Armour makes that a "3 shot if you get hit 3 times in one second". Can you still die? Of course but its about a 100 times better then stacking vit.
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I love how people say "If there are 3 range or you stand in fire you die fast." That's true for ALL builds. Go stack res/armour/vit and see how many hits you can take on Inferno. See how long you can stand in the fire.

The fact is everyone is getting one shot in Inferno. Force Armour makes that a "3 shot if you get hit 3 times in one second". Can you still die? Of course but its about a 100 times better then stacking vit.


Do you dislike that Wizards take 3 hits to die or that other classes take 1 hit? Do you think that, for example, it's reasonable for a Barbarian or Monk to die in 1 hit?
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I love how people say "If there are 3 range or you stand in fire you die fast." That's true for ALL builds. Go stack res/armour/vit and see how many hits you can take on Inferno. See how long you can stand in the fire.

The fact is everyone is getting one shot in Inferno. Force Armour makes that a "3 shot if you get hit 3 times in one second". Can you still die? Of course but its about a 100 times better then stacking vit.


For all *wizard* builds. Because Wizards have pathetically bad *other* defenses. Best slow is 60%, worse than 80% that both DH and WD have, and costs a big chunk of damage dealing resource. Frost Nova lasts very short time on inferno elites with long cooldown. Wave of Force same deal. Diamond Skin not scaling, so 1 hit removed. Teleport long cooldown. Stacking res/armor/vit is not an option for Wizards.

A well geared Barb or Monk can survive, somewhat. It isn't a straight up facetank, but with gear it is possible to live. A well geared Wizard without Force Armor cannot survive, at all. No amount of vit/res/armor will change that.
Edited by Deus#1287 on 5/22/2012 3:35 AM PDT
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05/22/2012 02:05 AMPosted by Velexia
Wait, why are Wizards not allowed to tank? Did this game suddenly become a MMORPG overnight where classes are forced into specific roles?


I honestly consider the game to be in idiotic state.
Where the fck is mana shield?
This is what happens when you get WoW people developing Diablo game.
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85 Orc Death Knight
RoE
6195
Posts: 944
I love how people say "If there are 3 range or you stand in fire you die fast." That's true for ALL builds. Go stack res/armour/vit and see how many hits you can take on Inferno. See how long you can stand in the fire.

The fact is everyone is getting one shot in Inferno. Force Armour makes that a "3 shot if you get hit 3 times in one second". Can you still die? Of course but its about a 100 times better then stacking vit.


Do you dislike that Wizards take 3 hits to die or that other classes take 1 hit? Do you think that, for example, it's reasonable for a Barbarian or Monk to die in 1 hit?


Inferno is broken as. I don't want Force Armour to be nerfed hard because I don't think Wizards have anything else to back it up.

But even with a 5 sec internal CD Force Armour would still be awesome.
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Posts: 58
Regardless of how "easily countered" the build is, the fact is it trivializes certain content, which means it's going to get nerfed. And it should be.
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85 Orc Death Knight
RoE
6195
Posts: 944
I love how people say "If there are 3 range or you stand in fire you die fast." That's true for ALL builds. Go stack res/armour/vit and see how many hits you can take on Inferno. See how long you can stand in the fire.

The fact is everyone is getting one shot in Inferno. Force Armour makes that a "3 shot if you get hit 3 times in one second". Can you still die? Of course but its about a 100 times better then stacking vit.


For all *wizard* builds. Because Wizards have pathetically bad *other* defenses. Best slow is 60%, worse than 80% that both DH and WD have, and costs a big chunk of damage dealing resource. Frost Nova lasts very short time on inferno elites with long cooldown. Wave of Force same deal. Diamond Skin not scaling, so 1 hit removed. Teleport long cooldown. Stacking res/armor/vit is not an option for Wizards.

A well geared Barb or Monk can survive, somewhat. It isn't a straight up facetank, but with gear it is possible to live. A well geared Wizard without Force Armor cannot survive, at all. No amount of vit/res/armor will change that.


They can? Show me the Barb or Monks that can take 3 hits and live on Inferno Act 2 or later.

The fact that you even mention snares on Inferno shows you don't have much experience in this area.
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i think the point that they're trying to make is that they should bring the other classes up to the level where they can take more than one hit if they use a skill slot for it, the regen is what needs to be fixed imho, if someone is playing with force armour on and with a normal build then they shouldn't be penalised for it
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85 Orc Death Knight
RoE
6195
Posts: 944
05/22/2012 04:11 AMPosted by Siindri
i think the point that they're trying to make is that they should bring the other classes up to the level where they can take more than one hit if they use a skill slot for it, the regen is what needs to be fixed imho, if someone is playing with force armour on and with a normal build then they shouldn't be penalised for it


I don't disagree just pointing out how silly the "but Fire/DOTs/etc own me so its balanced" argument.

The regen isn't the issue (there is even a passive that specifically regens with armour on). It's the combo with critical mass and Diamond Armour where it gets silly.
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100 Undead Mage
15625
Posts: 1,091
05/22/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Ifrit
I fail to understand why this is an "exploit'?


Currently items that give health regen, are not percentage based, where the wizard rune is so by lowering your health rather than raising it you effectively increase the percentage of health that get's regenerated :)

Obviously unlike the Barbarian you would want to avoid huge mobs to employ this strategy.
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05/22/2012 04:11 AMPosted by Siindri
i think the point that they're trying to make is that they should bring the other classes up to the level where they can take more than one hit if they use a skill slot for it, the regen is what needs to be fixed imho, if someone is playing with force armour on and with a normal build then they shouldn't be penalised for it


Penalized for what? Some builds are going to be good at one thing and require a certain style of play while others will be different.

Just because you can't massively regen in a high vitality build doesn't mean it should be less viable. The problem here lies with the fact that a high vitality build is useless in Inferno, regardless of the class.
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100 Undead Mage
15625
Posts: 1,091


They can? Show me the Barb or Monks that can take 3 hits and live on Inferno Act 2 or later.

The fact that you even mention snares on Inferno shows you don't have much experience in this area.


give me another week, and I'll start posting video's of my Barbarian on youtube doing exactly that.
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05/22/2012 04:19 AMPosted by Gutrachop
I fail to understand why this is an "exploit'?


Currently items that give health regen, are not percentage based, where the wizard rune is so by lowering your health rather than raising it you effectively increase the percentage of health that get's regenerated :)

Obviously unlike the Barbarian you would want to avoid huge mobs to employ this strategy.


Like I said, why is this an "exploit"?
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05/22/2012 04:24 AMPosted by Ifrit


Currently items that give health regen, are not percentage based, where the wizard rune is so by lowering your health rather than raising it you effectively increase the percentage of health that get's regenerated :)

Obviously unlike the Barbarian you would want to avoid huge mobs to employ this strategy.


Like I said, why is this an "exploit"?


It's not, people are just stupid and don't understand that they mean to say it's imbalanced. The behavior is completely documented and it's a simple combination of skills. It doesn't exploit anything other than the documented behavior of the skills in question.
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100 Night Elf Druid
18340
Posts: 5,329
05/22/2012 03:51 AMPosted by Hobbs
Regardless of how "easily countered" the build is, the fact is it trivializes certain content, which means it's going to get nerfed. And it should be.


Mmm no? Every class right now is pigeon holed into a build for Inferno. Inferno wasn't properly tested so for example Monks and Barbarians which have it the hardest and kill things EXTREMELY slow are pigeonholed into being healbots (monks) and stunbots (barbs). Those two classes also lack ranged abilities. Demonhunters have to use smoke screen or just die while witchdoctors well hell they have to pic the siphon move to increase their intellect. Sorcs using force armor because it's the only viable build isn't different from others having to pick certain specs. Thing is inferno is broken and broken intentionally.
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05/22/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Nightsbane
Regardless of how "easily countered" the build is, the fact is it trivializes certain content, which means it's going to get nerfed. And it should be.


Mmm no? Every class right now is pigeon holed into a build for Inferno. Inferno wasn't properly tested so for example Monks and Barbarians which have it the hardest and kill things EXTREMELY slow are pigeonholed into being healbots (monks) and stunbots (barbs). Those two classes also lack ranged abilities. Demonhunters have to use smoke screen or just die while witchdoctors well hell they have to pic the siphon move to increase their intellect. Sorcs using force armor because it's the only viable build isn't different from others having to pick certain specs. Thing is inferno is broken and broken intentionally.


Yea I agree with you about being forced into a build right now, but remember that we are only starting out with "sub-inferno" gear. I can almost see a month or two from now, when players started getting real geared. You going to see 100k+ HP Barbs and Monks, players going to cry OP then....too....again. Melee scale real well with gear, from my experiences.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
4835
Posts: 36
MMOrpg = Massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Afaik you still have to join private games unless they;re planning on making it one world with todays maint. Perhaps a trip to a search engine would help you because it seems that you don't understand what a mmorpg is.
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eh, forget inferno, I'm stuck on act 4 hell atm, I think for the most part I need to farm some more gear.
I have noticed that you basically can't slow down enemies movement speed / attack speed even in hell though.
I've hit them with slow time, blizzard and arcane using temporal flux, all at once, it doesn't have much of an effect.
Personally I think that overall enemy movement speed should be reduced, I used to bypass mobs I couldn't kill in D2 (fire/cold immune, ect) could usually outrun them, can't in D3.
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Posts: 58
05/22/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Nightsbane
Mmm no? Every class right now is pigeon holed into a build for Inferno. Inferno wasn't properly tested so for example Monks and Barbarians which have it the hardest and kill things EXTREMELY slow are pigeonholed into being healbots (monks) and stunbots (barbs). Those two classes also lack ranged abilities. Demonhunters have to use smoke screen or just die while witchdoctors well hell they have to pic the siphon move to increase their intellect. Sorcs using force armor because it's the only viable build isn't different from others having to pick certain specs. Thing is inferno is broken and broken intentionally.


Why does everyone think they should be able to solo inferno immediately after hell? The whole point of inferno was to be an extremely difficult challenge that could only be overcome by gear farming in hell. How long did it take for inferno to become a joke for wizards? 4 days after release?

You shouldn't be able waltz through the hardest challenge currently in the game with no fear, even if you're skipping most champ packs.
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That build doesnt even get you through some of the hell elite packs
Even if your dmg is reduced to max 35% how many creeps are there in an elite pack?
Ignoring the dot, the molten balls, ignoring the range mobs, a pack of hasted champs faceroll you anytime anyday
Even when it comes to act bosses, you still have to die when you got caught in quick dmgs
However, what a wizard has is dmg. pumping dmg is the only way to excel.
Basically, you have to obliterate everything in front of you before you are dead
AND, in order to pump up your dmg, you have to sacrifice other stats, namely vitality, leaving you with a small hp pool. Energy armor is only there to give you at least ONE chance to play in inferno.
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