Diablo® III

Diminishing Returns on Armor = Myth (graphs)

Great post! Just one question:

Should I use the extra 10% armor on War Cry for a total of +20% armor?
Or go for the +10% life and life regeneration?

Thanks!
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Bear in mind that the goal is effective health, not % effective health.
When there is a trade of between health or armor that should be taken into account.

The other critical consideration is what form of healing you benefit most from.

Also:
Does armor mitigate ALL forms of damage?
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Great post! Just one question:

Should I use the extra 10% armor on War Cry for a total of +20% armor?
Or go for the +10% life and life regeneration?

Thanks!


Health.

The +10% Armor and +10% health should do the same thing essentially but the health gives you regen and revenge heals for a percentage of your max health.
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Your math is wrong about diminishing returns. It's called diminishing returns because every point in X yields less of Y. In this case Y is DR, and X is armor.

To further illustrate my last point lets look at an example:
At 70% DR you have an effective health of 333.3%, increase over last = 10.8%
At 71% DR you have an effective health of 344.8%, increase over last = 11.5%
At 72% DR you have an effective health of 357.1%, increase over last = 12.3%
...
At 95% DR you have an effective health of 2000%, increase over last = 333.35%
At 96% DR you have an effective health of 2500%, increase over last = 500%


You analyze DR and assume the same amount of armor will get to 71% DR as 72%, which it does not. In fact, the amount of armor you need to the next 1% of DR increases exponentially, hence why Armor is diminishing amount.

Just look at your own graph and look how much armor you need going from 40-50% DR and from 70-80% DR.
http://i50.tinypic.com/1pgtaf.jpg

Bottom of the line is, you need to stack resistance if your armor is 8k and you have 10 resists, assuming you can get resists as easily as you can get armor.


Those bullet points show why you get less DR per armor point. Because otherwise the value of armor would increase as you got more armor. So it's an explanation for why things are the way they are, instead of DR scaling linearly with armor.

Diminishing returns really implies that the effectiveness of armor goes down as armor goes up, which I think I've shown isn't true. I guess there is some semantics issue going on because you're not the first to tell me I don't understand what they are. So lets just agree to disagree about the exact meaning of it.

It is true that the relative value of other mitigation stats goes up as armor goes up, as I've also shown. So yes, resistance becomes more useful as armor increases, but that doesn't mean that the effectiveness of armor is diminished, which it's not. 1 armor (generally) yields the same bonus to survivability whether you have 1,000 armor or 1,000,000 armor, all other things held constant.

Digression: I believe that if you use a shield, armor increases the benefit of your block. Say you're getting hit for 100 mitigated damage and your shield blocks 5. That's 5% of the damage you would have taken without the shield. Now you get more armor and you only take 50 mitigated damage. Your shield still blocks 5, but that's now 10% of the damage you would have otherwise taken instead of 5%. So it would seem that armor (and any other stat which reduces damage taken) increases the effectiveness of your block. So I THINK that using a shield actually makes each armor (or resistance or w/e) point worth more than the last. That's also assuming that block is calculated after DR, which I assume is true and seems to be the case from my personal experience. Most of this stuff has probably been done to death by people who play WoW, but it all needs to be redone a little bit once more is known about the way damage is calculated in D3.

And you know, I've said this a number of times but these charts and things aren't super complete or anything. They're only accurate in a world where things like dodge, block, and passive abilities don't exist. I can work on bringing all that stuff in together if people are interested, but the current work is just to prove a point. (That armor is still good past 7000, or whatever).
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Great post! Just one question:

Should I use the extra 10% armor on War Cry for a total of +20% armor?
Or go for the +10% life and life regeneration?

Thanks!


When you get it the +50% resistances rune seems to be the most effective. The added regeneration and max HP is pretty nice. But getting ALL your resistances increased by x0.5 is hard to pass up. 600 all resist would become 900 more likely adds more survivability than +10% hp. Remember THB said every point in Armour/Resistance is more effective than the last.

Edit:
05/23/2012 11:22 PMPosted by TBD
Diminishing returns really implies that the effectiveness of armor goes down as armor goes up, which I think I've shown isn't true.

His problem is how hard it is to increase armour for those 1% jumps? Maybe he didn't open up the graphs to see its all equal.
Edited by starshatter#1493 on 5/23/2012 11:40 PM PDT
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great post

thank you !'!'!!!!!!!
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Thanks for typing this all out and posting the graphs. Very informative. I'll probably have to read it a few more times, but it was truly enlightening for a math noob such as I to learn the 1:8 Vit/Armor ratio :) I'll definitely keep that in mind while shopping from now on.
Edited by Sigh#1856 on 5/24/2012 12:17 AM PDT
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if i use "nervs of steel" and have say.. 100 vit does it give me more protection than 100 int?
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Too much math. Me smash, me do good.
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What about the passive that converts 100% of vitality to armor? Doesn't that change things up a bit?
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85 Orc Shaman
0
Why are people including Dodge into EH equations? Dodge does nothing for EH, as EH only ever applies if you actually get hit and take damage. A Dodged hit does 0 damage, and thus means exactly 0 to EH.
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Incorrect, but it's semantics

@Kaiser

That would simply mean that each vit is worth 1 armor more
Edited by Hells#1558 on 5/24/2012 3:24 AM PDT
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85 Orc Shaman
0
How is it incorrect?
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Because you can say it's the equivalent of a certain number of HP.
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I can't believe this has to be explained AGAIN. It works this way in just about every game I've ever played.
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Great post. I've seen similar posts on other forums for some other games that I play and was wondering when someone would do the simple math for this game as well.

05/24/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Prophaniti
Why are people including Dodge into EH equations? Dodge does nothing for EH, as EH only ever applies if you actually get hit and take damage. A Dodged hit does 0 damage, and thus means exactly 0 to EH.

This is not true. Dodge chance can easily factor into effective health; however, I believe you have to start making assumptions about how much damage your enemy is doing per hit.
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Wow! Amazing thread, TBD. Can't wait to see the new app!
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