Diablo® III

Diminishing Returns on Armor = Myth (graphs)

100 Tauren Druid
16855
Posts: 62
I know dex/dodge doesn't directly incorporate into EH, but I know there is an inflection point where increasing dodge would give you a better chance of survival.
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05/25/2012 08:00 AMPosted by Gus
Gentlemen: http://rubensayshi.github.com/d3-ehp-calculator/


I'm not sure if you're the one who developed that link but I'm curious about the output I'm seeing here.

As a Wizard with 188 all resist, Energy Armor and Glass Cannon I'm getting an output of 169.2 buffed resistance. Why would it treat me as losing ~19 or 10% resist?
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Posts: 53
TBD, you have truly done the work of the Gods, sir. Thank you immensely for this post.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
Posts: 978
thank you based OP
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05/25/2012 06:46 AMPosted by Unhumanje
Does anyone have a graph for Vitality Vs Resistance ? I think that is quite more important as they are much more correlated in item generation than vit/armor.


I'd really like to know as well
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great post! but this link: http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1337704597 doesnt seem to work
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How do resists and armor stack together?

If I have 50% damage reduction from my armor, and then 60% from my physical resist and something punches me, am I correct in assuming it would do 20% of its base damage?
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How do resists and armor stack together?

If I have 50% damage reduction from my armor, and then 60% from my physical resist and something punches me, am I correct in assuming it would do 20% of its base damage?


Yes.
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90 Troll Warrior
8695
Posts: 1,842
This is not true. Dodge chance can easily factor into effective health; however, I believe you have to start making assumptions about how much damage your enemy is doing per hit.


I don't think you quite understand what EH v. TTL means. The OP also seems to be struggling with semantics as well. EH and TTL (Time to Live) were terms that became common in the tanking vernacular due to Satrina's work in the Evil Empire guides for WoW. The OP is attempting to recreate that work (even using almost identical format), but is lacking the thoroughness in wording that Satrina used in his arguments.

It is a matter of text book definition that Armor as a stat has a diminishing return attached to it. That is simple to see just looking at the Damage Reduction equation. However, as the OP is attempting to say it does not correspond to a diminishing return in EH. The OP is failing to understand that Armor is the actual stat and EH is the derived stat. The diminishing return in the actual stat is designed to keep the derived stat behaving in a linear fashion. The OP is making an incorrect statement in saying that Armor does not have a diminishing return. It is a semantically incorrect argument.

As for Dodge you are also incorrect in saying that it factors into EH calculations. EH, as commonly defined across virtually every game that has this discussion, means the amount of raw damage you can take before falling over dead without the influence of RNG factors; i.e., dodge and block. Basically what this means is how much raw damage intake will cause you to die when RNG fails you.

The OP would be well served to add in a third term in this discussion. A term that would add in RNG factors like block and dodge. Luckily this sort of term already exists in the form of Time to Live (TTL). This is another term that came to widespread use by Satrina back in Vanilla WoW. It takes the concept of EH and marries it with incoming damage. This is where the true linear increase in survival from Armor is best displayed. EH by itself doesn't do a very strong job of driving home the linear effects of Armor on survivability.

TTL is also the place to factor in RNG sources of increased survival. However, there is a problem with adding RNG into TTL calculations. Namely, that it comes down to time frame. Over long periods of time (talking on the scale of 2+ minutes, not 10-20 secs) RNG will average out enough that you can make fairly confident statements about the effectiveness of RNG survival sources. Where these assumptions will fall apart is in short time frames. This is because getting a series of Dodges and/or Blocks in a 10-20 sec window makes your TTL fluctuate wildly, but you cannot count on that happening. This is why RNG sources are often ignored in short duration models.

The OP made a good start. It is appreciated, but he needs to refine his argument. I think he should lead a debate about the importance of RNG sources of survival within in the D3 model. I find that my periods of critical survival (lots of mobs or a rough combination on elite/rare mobs) are very short lived (usually revolving around the CD on pots) which would hint that block and avoidance are far less important than life leech, armor, vitality and resistances.
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85 Troll Rogue
9660
Posts: 521
How do resists and armor stack together?

If I have 50% damage reduction from my armor, and then 60% from my physical resist and something punches me, am I correct in assuming it would do 20% of its base damage?


Yes.
Are you sure? I was under the impression that damage reduction was calculated by division, not multiplication.

For example, in this case, if a monster hit him for 100 physical damage, damage taken could be calculated by 100/1.5/1.6= 41.666 taken after resists/armor. Is it actually 100*.5*.4 = 20? If so, mitigation stats are a good bit more powerful than I thought they were.
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Posts: 348


Yes.
Are you sure? I was under the impression that damage reduction was calculated by division, not multiplication.

For example, in this case, if a monster hit him for 100 physical damage, damage taken could be calculated by 100/1.5/1.6= 41.666 taken after resists/armor. Is it actually 100*.5*.4 = 20? If so, mitigation stats are a good bit more powerful than I thought they were.

Yes.

Total Damage Reduction

For Information or comparing different builds and setups it is often useful to calculate the total damage reduction of your character. Different sources of damage reduction are added multiplicative. Be aware to only use defense mechanics that work against the damage typ/ attack typ you are interested in. This total damage reduction is a median over time as effects as block or dodge are random events.

Basic Formula:
%totaldr=100*(1-(1-dr1)*(1-dr2)*(1-dr3)*(1-dr4).......)

drx= Source of damage reduction


http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3660206725?page=1
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Used the calculator.

Have 26, 426 HP and 4114 Armor (cLvL = 60) and got the following:
1 Vitality = 83.00 Effective HP
1 Armor = 8.81 Effective HP

I also have +16% Life through gear and gems. My calculations should me that the values should be:

1 Vitality = 96.28 Effective HP
1 Armor = 8.81 Effective HP

Is not including +% Life stat an error or is there a reason it's not included? Apologies if it's already been mentioned; would be appreciative if someone can reply with an answer.
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- Technical Support
90 Human Priest
6220
Posts: 11,034
I'm bookmarking this page for future use for sure. Thankfully there's a trick for Safari users to be able to download the flash app on its own and not have to have the (slow) website load each time you want to use it. For those on Safari, here's how (this will save you lots of download time and bandwidth for the site hosting it):

1) Press CMD-OPT-A (or for Windows users select the Activity Window from the Window menubar option).

2) Scroll down to the part of the window that has the title of the webpage in bold letters (title will be the page name in the window's top space).

3) Find the item in that page's list that most closely matches the listed filesize as stated by the OP/Author on the website page.

4) With that item selected, in Mac OS X Safari, hold the OPT (option) key while double clicking that entry and it will download the file to your HD/SSD. Windows users can accomplish the same by holding CTRL while double clicking the entry.

5) Open the Downloads window via the same Window menu and click the magnifying glass icon so it will take you directly to the file on the HD/SSD.

6) Rename the file to something you'll recognize, and optionally put it on your desktop for easier access.

You can now double click the file and have it instantly open in your browser without download time and without wasting bandwidth for the host site.

To the OP: If you update the file at any time with new features/fixes, please post in the first post along with the date of the new file so we know whether or not the file we have is out of date. :)

Also, thank you for making this app. Once people are comfortable with how to read the results (it took even me a couple minutes to figure out the comparison without having to "translate it on the fly" in my head first), it becomes very, very useful.
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i am monitoring this thread

*monitor picture*
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85 Human Mage
11175
Posts: 1,295
this is great, and i especially like the part about bloodthirst, as it shows how much our dps stat can assist in survivability
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thank you so much!
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Posts: 4
would you mind if u could pass me the algo and logics for your flash? so i could make a web version. with the web version, people w/o flash could use it =)
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Great job, Requested Sticky for this
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Posts: 558
Thanks for the post made sense
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