Diablo® III

Diablo III's core problem <=>ITEMS ARE BORING

http://diablo3markets.incgamers.com/blog/comments/legendary-set-items-immenseley-undertuned-high-end-weapons-trivialized

The author explains that not only are legendary items pretty bad compared to other blue/yellow items, but that the ITEMIZATION IS BORING. Blizzard should heed this warning and think about making some SERIOUS changes to items. I am not saying this, because I want to just talk bad about Diablo III or Blizzard. In fact, Diablo III has VERY crisp game play, controls, and mechanics, BUT there are some serious issues. I want to help by bringing attention to a serious problem.

In my honest opinion people will not be farming Inferno for long, because, quite frankly, the items are BORING.

Remember when Blizzard originally showed the item data base and there was this huge commotion about how the items seemed boring? Blizzard took down the data base and explained to everyone that those were simply placeholders. Now we are past release and nothing has changed. Boring, dull affixes.

To quote the author

To be quite blunt, I am not at all a fan of the homogenization of item stats in Diablo 3. I don’t like that every single affix equally benefits every class and spec. Why? Because it’s uninteresting, boring and simplified to the point of having little to no diversity. It’s trivial and basic, turning a complex and interesting item system into a simple and basic decision that you can’t possibly get wrong. It leads to items being so generic that their value is just a matter of taste, rather than being actually superior for X spec. In short, it’s boring and very MMO-like.


Furthermore

item-types in Diablo 3 are far more homogenized, meaning that every class can use virtually every item-type (some restrictions). Wizards can use big 2h swords. Armors have no requirements, usable by all. This further moves away from the D2-style model of low-probability awesome items. It means that when you roll up a rare item, all of its stats are useful, and the criteria for an item to be good is drastically lowered to only one thing: High Stat Ranges.


Basically to sum it up every class can use pretty much any gear. There is no real restriction on armor or weapons (except for a few) and this makes for much more homogenous itemization. That is BORING.

In Diablo II you had a much higher chance of getting items with the wrong affixes or an item your class could not use/equip. This made for a much more random and exciting itemization. If you found a really good item IT REALLY MATTERED. Here there is not much restriction on item usage, all stats benefit all classes, and the items are more streamlined.

Blizzard you made a very homogenous item pool which is bland. As the author says "Diablo III has very generic, balanced and equally useful affixes no matter what your class or spec is"

here is the article he specifically wrote about the item pool:

http://diablo3markets.incgamers.com/blog/comments/is-the-elite-item-gap-being-flattened-in-diablo-3-items-more-accessible

In other words Blizzard please fix the affixes available to items and put some restrictions on item usage. Also address the fact that stats are just bland now and useful for every class. make the changes to items are more random and getting the right one is even more awesome.
Edited by JollyJoka#1823 on 5/20/2012 3:33 AM PDT
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How about Diablo 2 before LoD? It was pretty much the exact same thing as today, except Iceblink was required in hell and sorceresses had a full set of uniques and those were the only viable items for them. For all other classes the pre-LoD situation was almost exactly the same.
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i second this..

my wizard was using a sword for the first tweny levels of normal dofficulty because i liked the stats.. and i still mauled all the npcs..
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05/20/2012 03:34 AMPosted by EnaiSiaion
How about Diablo 2 before LoD? It was pretty much the exact same thing as today, except Iceblink was required in hell and sorceresses had a full set of uniques and those were the only viable items for them. For all other classes the pre-LoD situation was almost exactly the same.


can someone please explain to me why that makes the current situation ok? because a game from over 10 years ago had a !@#$ty item system its ok for this new one to be %^-*ty at first too? obviously at some point this will be addressed but why the !@#$ did it happen in the first place
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i feel the same way the game play is fun!! but that's about it!!
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that post has no idea how math works
he literally said 740 is greater than 722+45attbonus
he cant even do basic math sorry kiddo but this entire post is garbage

also there was much worse homogenization of items in d2 in the form of runewords
why bother with random affixes when you could have a fury or duress like any !@#$ing other player in the entire game

runewords didnt even have the semi random stats that legendary weapons do now and they were also 200 billion times easier to come by

and yes as a wizard i guess i can use strength but that isnt exactly optimal huh
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05/20/2012 03:34 AMPosted by EnaiSiaion
How about Diablo 2 before LoD? It was pretty much the exact same thing as today, except Iceblink was required in hell and sorceresses had a full set of uniques and those were the only viable items for them. For all other classes the pre-LoD situation was almost exactly the same.


I really dont understand people like you. You're comparing this to Vanilla D2 and saying its like that for a reason? Blizzard should have learned from that already since they created LoD. Its like they took a step backwards
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05/20/2012 03:34 AMPosted by EnaiSiaion
How about Diablo 2 before LoD? It was pretty much the exact same thing as today, except Iceblink was required in hell and sorceresses had a full set of uniques and those were the only viable items for them. For all other classes the pre-LoD situation was almost exactly the same.


Wow you are so wrong ...

Uniques had often unique effects which rares and blues couldnt have, also they were alot better than blues. But if you were REAL lucky then rares surpassed uniques. The duped rares you see in classic or even in LoD were all these lucky rare rolls.

Thats how it should be, but right now even blues you can buy or find everywhere are better than the hardest to find legendarys. And they dont even have unique things to it.

Currently there are also rares which have nice mods like a freeze chance but that chance is like what ? 1% ? WTF, GTFO ... its like the items are made for a MMO and not a Hackn slay game.

Even a low lvl unique in D2 for example a helm (forgot the name) blinded your enemies I even think by 100% chance and you could do this also with multishot ..

Or knockback effects like on howltusk, god how I loved that on cow king or other hard enemies with my bowa zon and guided arrow. Was it stupid ? maybe but ALOT AND TONS OF FUN.

The items in d3 right now are UNFUN. In a game where story only matters the 1st time and there are only items and pvp for content and Blizzard FAILS HARD on that most important part ...

Cant describe how mad and sad Iam, this is totally BS.
Edited by CRUShER#2493 on 5/20/2012 3:55 AM PDT
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Op pull some great quotes, I touched on this in a post yesterday;

There is no diversity in gear! Simply farming for the next upgrade prefix or suffix, not even paying attention to the type of gear. This completely takes away from how awesome it was to find a piece of gear that was the right armor type and prefix/suffix for your class. Now it's all generic, clearly a move made to try and please the masses, in an attempt to create an "everybody's a winner!" environment.
Edited by MattyB#1176 on 5/20/2012 4:00 AM PDT
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Oh and dont forget the elementar dmg. on weapons, it does nothing else than do normal dmg T_T.

In D2 for example when you had cold dmg. on a weapon it chilled the mobs thats how you also expect it or fire dmg. stunned for like a half second or poison did dmg. over time obviously. And in D3 ? It does nothing, only do normal dmg., I !@#$in dont know what to say.

Either Blizzard is trolling us, they lost their mind or they just want the masses go back anyways to WoW when the panda addon is releasing.

If Blizzard really wants to make money out of future expansions they better fix the mess which is the itemization in this game ASAP.
Edited by CRUShER#2493 on 5/20/2012 4:21 AM PDT
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That is what is so strange about Diablo 3.

In my opinion the story is pretty bad, the itemization while great in theory (yay random property rares like before lod xpac came out) but it ends up suffering because the random properties often suck or are mismatched, some of the new characters are bad as well.

However the Gameplay is excellent, I love it. If Blizzard can manage to tweak some of the itemization and drop I would be extremely happy. I can even forgive the lame (imo) story.
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What many people on these forums are forgetting is that 1) D3 hasn't even been out for a week yet, and 2) D3 was not developed by the same team that did the two previous installments. So anything that was done in D1 and D2 left with the original team and this new team has to start from scratch.
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I'd like some solid items that I know that rely on, not the all out randomness that they are pulling on us. It's too much lottery, and it scares me away.

I want that feeling gold "Hydra Bow"! Bam yea, I got myself a Windforce! Now I can make an amazon.

Not, "legendary bow", identify, Venomhusk (affixes: -2lvlreq, +28int, +15 fury).
.........Wait what!?

^ that legendary bow has 382 random properties to choose from, I don't even want to calculate how low % it is to roll the most perfect one.
- On top of that, you have to find a legendary bow which is probably 0.0005%.

What are we looking at here, 0.00000000005%?
d3db.com
Edited by Freddan#2776 on 5/20/2012 4:58 AM PDT
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05/20/2012 04:31 AMPosted by Darkestar
What many people on these forums are forgetting is that 1) D3 hasn't even been out for a week yet, and 2) D3 was not developed by the same team that did the two previous installments. So anything that was done in D1 and D2 left with the original team and this new team has to start from scratch.


To be fare, the new team did not start from scratch. They had access to the previous two games, just like everyone else, AND they most likely had access to all the databases and info the previous dev teams had since Blizzard owns the rights to Diablo, not Blizzard North, and, as such, they couldn't just take all the data from their work on the game and delete it when they left.

That all being said, I am not too worried. Just like they supported Diablo 2 for a long time, I am pretty sure they will be updating and fixing issues with this game on a regular basis -- especially since they now have a financial gain from this game in the RMAH.
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I think the problem with the loot system is deeper than we see. The problems are:

1. Lack of temporary ladder system. If the legendaries were the absolute best, there would need to be an infinitely small drop rate for them to make their existence justified. Since every drop is permanent, then there will eventually be a build up of legendaries in the economy. That will break the economy no matter what. Some kind of a ladder (or item reset) system is a must for such a game where legendaries are the best and they drop frequently.

A parallel problem is the existence of RMAH. RMAH and a ladder system can go together but the players must be warned about it. You can say that the money a player invests in some item is gone and the item is obsolete in the new ladder. However, that would be difficult to explain.

2. Lack of "unique" stats. Making and implementing unique stats that appear on only a couple of items (supposedly legendaries) is a lot of programming work. It seems that Blizzard has avoided to make such an investment during the development period. Such an investment is necessary to make legendaries worthwhile.
Edited by Robfang#2362 on 5/20/2012 5:20 AM PDT
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05/20/2012 03:31 AMPosted by Muhammad
In Diablo II you had a much higher chance of getting items with the wrong affixes or an item your class could not use/equip. This made for a much more random and exciting itemization. If you found a really good item IT REALLY MATTERED.


I understand that the end product/emotions is "Wow! I get this! Awesome!" With that sort of model, but do you honestly think that people now would appreciate something like that?

Because at the end of the day - you really can't go on to another difficulty without getting better gear (either progressively or not), so in essence, gear and upgrades sort of always matter.

05/20/2012 03:31 AMPosted by Muhammad
Blizzard you made a very homogenous item pool which is bland.


I mean you could make that argument, but at the end it would be excruciating to have so many gates in order to just get the item that you need or want. You do a boss, and instead of it dropping items that you can maybe use (now), it would drop two plate weapons and you couldn't use either because you're a Wizard? (What you're suggesting)

That sounds more frustrating to me than it does fun.

However, I think a strong point that people make is on the topic of Legendaries. I feel like they're a little too replaceable.
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Edited by Practical#1393 on 5/20/2012 5:21 AM PDT
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-CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM FROM A FAN-

first off, i'm someone who loves this game and i'm in inferno, so i've had about as much time to play as anyone and form my opinions off experience. to weigh in on the topic of boring items i'd like to let blizzard know that between all the people on my friend's list who have found a legendary (or several) have let me know that they were terrible. there wasn't even a contest; it was "omg, a legenda...um...bleh, it's terrible." i can think of six separate examples thus far, and so my desire to finally find one for myself is quickly waning.

now for my criticism/ideas.
i think that blizzard has at least one thing right: legendaries should have a range on (some) stats. the real problem is that the range is too great. if an item's range on, say, vitality is between 180-200 instead of 30-200 there would still be the added excitement of rolling a perfect legendary and yet the item is much more likely to be better than that boring blue you're hoping to get rid of. now magics and rares can, and should, still roll a better item than the legendary, but that should be a truly momentous occasion. d2's best items were the magic and rare quality "trophies" that you would post screenshots of on d2jsp but they were so rare that finding one was both thrilling, and yet in no way detracted from the power and status of uniques/runewords/etc.

the second point is that items should feel overpowered. this is something that i think blizzard does very well in their games, and has been achieved in some areas in D3. comparing items to D2 however (which i think is a valid thing to do) it becomes readily apparent that D3's items lack "oomph". 40% CB, 5 to ALL skills, etc really makes you look at an item and go "hell yeah," whereas seeing 2% damage to one of one class's abilities is somewhat lackluster. the problem here is that there are more item slots in D3 than D2, and so some stats have to shrink to compensate (though i suppose mob buffs, etc, would also work). if blizzard could give more items a feeling of awesomeness, people would enjoy the item hunt much more.

in my (and many, many other's) opinion legendaries just need to be stabilized and empowered. that doesn't mean static; it just means narrowing stat ranges, which can simultaneously achieve the second point. i imagine that changes such as these would require a whole new process of balancing the game, but the time would be well spent if players are as drawn to this game as they were to D2.
cheers!
Edited by WarSong#1336 on 5/20/2012 5:56 AM PDT
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