Diablo® III

so...monks pet > garg???

Posts: 101
After playing ALL classes ( most to 60) I can say that, by FAR, WD is the most under power, easiest to die,least usefull class in game.This class needs a major overhaul.
This is NOT a WD hate thread or flame job. Hell, I love my WD.Mechanics are just horrible.
Some good ideas, just LONG cooldown and so many useless ( but "fun") skills.Those that play, know all the issues..wont go into them.
PLEASE dont flame me saying how easy you solo single player and you "pwn"..try a mage same level as you.10x faster,easier killing.

After trying every build from every 'expert" on the net...and 500 000g or so:
I have found ONE build that works 1/2 decent...allthough a tad slow.

I stacked massive life regen,thorns and vitality when possible.( every item)
At 52 I have 1000/sec regen ( so do my 4 dogs and 1 stinker) and 1391 thorns.Int is low now , around 650ish at the moment.Also my 1 hand wep has +190 life per hit ( I hoped this worked on pets..not sure if it does) and 350 heal after a mob dies....also hoping this translated to pets.

In nm in 4 player games my stinker has NEVER died..ever.My 4 fire dogs dies perhaps 1 time a game from blue lightning/ lava or green poison elites.( often they dont)

Pets solo asodan and diablo and friends easy.(nm)..play style is a tad slower like a minion necro..but it works.I have never died from 45 till 51.I regen 1000 a sec. I have ZERO fear of death.
I use 20% damage reduction / 4 dog / and loyalty passives. splinter dart/rain frogs/locust (pest) /big stinker /4 fire dogs for now..will swap to health leech dogs at 54.
Im told that zombie bear "owns"..will try it when I level up.

As of now : 10500 life 15% dodge 48% damage reduction.

With a monk in the group ( heal mantra) its a joke.I ASSURE you, wizzy /DH like my 5 pets tanking for them.They stand way back and do what they do..safe like.often I swap in fetish army/legion dagger to add 10 more mobs to tank.As of now thorns/regen works on them as well.They add massive burst dps ( and safety) for those 20 sec.

For a goof, joined friends in hell late act 1.Pets still dont die.
between massive pet regen /thorns and locus/rain I kill NP at all.If I take any damage I back off for 2-3 sec and im full health again.I can go afk in NM on asmodan standing in red pools and taking nasty fireballs as pets kill him.I out regen the damage.

FYI this is with just decent gear, that I went for lowest price/bang for the buck.I am sure if I spent 30 mins and spend more $ I could get 10-25% more thorns and regen and other stats.

I am confident in all of hell this will work fine.....inferno is another story.

Still think the class needs a total overhall, but this a fun ,odd build..in a D2 summon necro way.

-FASTCAR-
I don't need a 9 sec Evo turbo streetcar....sure gets the milk home fast =P


no inferno, no care

-_-
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After playing ALL classes ( most to 60) I can say that, by FAR, WD is the most under power, easiest to die,least usefull class in game.This class needs a major overhaul.
This is NOT a WD hate thread or flame job. Hell, I love my WD.Mechanics are just horrible.
Some good ideas, just LONG cooldown and so many useless ( but "fun") skills.Those that play, know all the issues..wont go into them.
PLEASE dont flame me saying how easy you solo single player and you "pwn"..try a mage same level as you.10x faster,easier killing.

After trying every build from every 'expert" on the net...and 500 000g or so:
I have found ONE build that works 1/2 decent...allthough a tad slow.

I stacked massive life regen,thorns and vitality when possible.( every item)
At 52 I have 1000/sec regen ( so do my 4 dogs and 1 stinker) and 1391 thorns.Int is low now , around 650ish at the moment.Also my 1 hand wep has +190 life per hit ( I hoped this worked on pets..not sure if it does) and 350 heal after a mob dies....also hoping this translated to pets.

In nm in 4 player games my stinker has NEVER died..ever.My 4 fire dogs dies perhaps 1 time a game from blue lightning/ lava or green poison elites.( often they dont)

Pets solo asodan and diablo and friends easy.(nm)..play style is a tad slower like a minion necro..but it works.I have never died from 45 till 51.I regen 1000 a sec. I have ZERO fear of death.
I use 20% damage reduction / 4 dog / and loyalty passives. splinter dart/rain frogs/locust (pest) /big stinker /4 fire dogs for now..will swap to health leech dogs at 54.
Im told that zombie bear "owns"..will try it when I level up.

As of now : 10500 life 15% dodge 48% damage reduction.

With a monk in the group ( heal mantra) its a joke.I ASSURE you, wizzy /DH like my 5 pets tanking for them.They stand way back and do what they do..safe like.often I swap in fetish army/legion dagger to add 10 more mobs to tank.As of now thorns/regen works on them as well.They add massive burst dps ( and safety) for those 20 sec.

For a goof, joined friends in hell late act 1.Pets still dont die.
between massive pet regen /thorns and locus/rain I kill NP at all.If I take any damage I back off for 2-3 sec and im full health again.I can go afk in NM on asmodan standing in red pools and taking nasty fireballs as pets kill him.I out regen the damage.

FYI this is with just decent gear, that I went for lowest price/bang for the buck.I am sure if I spent 30 mins and spend more $ I could get 10-25% more thorns and regen and other stats.

I am confident in all of hell this will work fine.....inferno is another story.

Still think the class needs a total overhall, but this a fun ,odd build..in a D2 summon necro way.

-FASTCAR-
I don't need a 9 sec Evo turbo streetcar....sure gets the milk home fast =P


no inferno, no care

-_-


Inferno. (only one word is needed)
Edited by Pro#2663 on 5/28/2012 5:20 PM PDT
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Outside of a 2 barbs I have seen : 1 with 55 000 lfe and almost 1200/sec regen and another with 100 000 life...about everyone I have seen gets 1 shot in inferno.....including all pets.

Wizzy is the best inferno farmer by far.
(insert your class here) do inferno, just MUCH slower and less safe.
WD is still the worst class in this game.
Yet..I still like mine.

If possible, 1200-3000+ regen/sec would be nice with 2000-5000 thorns and other stats. Not sure if it is possible.
YES drpwnstein, I saw you in inferno. You DID solo...I don't consider 25-30 mins kite for THREE mobs effecient.Also you died ( what) like 35 times?

Anyway I hope a patch makes this class better.This game is more beta then done ( to me).
Killing time till Guildwars 2.

D.A.O.C. > all
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2500 ish regen/ sec and 5500ish thorns now.PHY resist is about 400, other resists are 120-250 armor is 4500ish ( still using low cost. bang for the buck gear...with unlimited cash all numbers could be 10-25% better...perhaps more)

My INT un buffed is about 400, buffed 1190ish.Dodge is in the 15% area.
Upping STR and Phy resist helped pets ALOT.

Pets tank just fine in inferno all acts and rarely, if ever die to ANY amount of( standard) mobs.
Pets( 4 dogs) can tank or last quite a while vs many types of blues and g!%#!s.Big pet lasts 4-5X as long..he is F'N tough.The nastiest molten+plague or lasers kill them fast.On these I release my 10 lil stabby midgets.
pets damage ( with current gear) is so so, BUT..the thorns do massive damage. Mobs kill themselves hitting the pets.pets regen faster then they take damage=stuff dies.ODD way to play , BUT it works..IMO its the best build for WD..perhaps other classes also.
To assist pets I buff my INT ( on 5 when I can) and cast my swarm DOT with last rune ( fire).Damage is average/low at best but it does the trick.
I have had hundreds of DH and wizzy and caster spec WD THANK me for having 4-14 uber tank pets. They get in the way , so casters/DH can DPS un affraid and safe.
Does it work...yes..WELL.In 3-4 man groups , I remove my dot and take voodoo with 20 IAS+30% damage rune.

As of right now, I have ( lol) 13000 life in inferno..and die less then others I have played with.

Farming Hell is a total joke now.Outside of a super rare blue group with perfect spells, NOTHING hurts me..at all.I can stand in Asmodans pools of acid /blood and take fireballs and just go afk while pets kill him.Same for other bosses.Diablo also.

if Blizz ever buffs pets or pet builds somehow, this will be perhaps the best class/build in the game.

*BTW whoever messaged me ( forgot name) I only use a blue 575 1 hander for now ( best I have found). has like 150 STR and 100 Dex .A massive 2 hander would let pets dps more THUS healing themselves and me more.( or a better 1 hander)\

Found where and how the chinese are gold /item farming in inferno.After several games with my pets, 10-15 of them invite me to game regular.Seems they LOVE the cover and dps boost I provide.On the plus side I made 200k gold/hour roughly and got a few decent items for alts. **Got a blue 998 xbow today.
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Why can't Monk stack STR/Armor/Resist to be a tank-summoner too?

I mean Monk is already melee and stacking DEX/STR/Armor/Resist is already expected.

Has anyone tried a "tanker-mind" Monk or if there is such a thing? I tend to believe Mystic Ally gets the same stats the way Garg gets from WD.

The thread is about Mystic Ally's inherent superiority over Garg.

1. Mystic Ally has better base damage 40% weapon.
2. Mystic Ally gets 30% damage reduction already
3. Mystic Ally has no cool down
4. Mystic Ally actually has a taunt if you rune it

I love my Garg's Stinker but I saw Mystic Ally the other day and he has an aoe aura too. Maybe Garg has higher base health?
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 6/3/2012 1:29 PM PDT
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The thread is about Mystic Ally's inherent superiority over Garg.

1. Mystic Ally has better base damage 40% weapon.
2. Mystic Ally gets 30% damage reduction already
3. Mystic Ally has no cool down
4. Mystic Ally actually has a taunt if you rune it


and yeah, the monks pet works like garg (armor and all that from us)

so its superior in every way -.-
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It could stand to have a cooldown added to it, yeah. There's even a rune for it whose primary benefit seems to be that when it dies, it brings itself back. I'm not entirely sure why anybody would use that rune on a skill with no cooldown and a lower cost than half of that class's skills. It seriously seems like that rune was designed at some point when Mystic Ally had a cooldown, and at some point the cooldown was removed for reasons I don't fully understand.

That being said, that "40% weapon damage" on Mystic Ally may look much better than Gargantuan's 25%, but Monks have a grand total of 6 skills that break the 110% damage threshold. Big picture, here. I'd also argue that Witch Docs have the upper-hand in their pet-buff passives. I mean, sure, there's Mantras, but there's really nothing they can do that emulates the life-per-second + thorns damage builds people are posting about here. They can pick one or the other of those, but Mystic Ally is only one target and therefore not good Thorns-bait, even if you could keep it alive while the Thorns mantra is up. (Which is harder than it sounds, and re-summoning isn't especially helpful when all the nearby monsters have already re-focused on you.)
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I've been reading Monk's skills and Monk can probably build a better "thorn" build because of Mantra of Retribution?

Can MoR stack with your +thorn damage? That seems awesome on paper but I don't think return-damage is worth it. I'll probably go with dodge-mantras or life-regen mantras.

Some of Monk's tactics may benefit his pet:

- Seize the Initiative: Armor is increased by 100% of your DEX (if our Horrify's +armor works for Garg, I can't see why this tactic can't work)

- Sixth Sense: Your dodge chance is increased by 30% of your critical chance (we found out that Dodge and Critical Chance are inherent to pets)

- The Guardian's Path: Dual Wield increases your Dodge chance

- One with Everything: Your resistance to all element is equal to your highest elemental resistance.

I don't visit Monk forum but if those tactics work with the pet, then it seems very possible to make a decent "tanker-pet" build? And doesn't Monk have a healing skill? I am sure he can heal the pet right when needed?

These tactics seem to directly affect Monk's stats so it's reasonable to assume that the pet gets it too? That just sounds very awesome on paper!
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 6/3/2012 2:48 PM PDT
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2500 ish regen/ sec and 5500ish thorns now.PHY resist is about 400, other resists are 120-250 armor is 4500ish ( still using low cost. bang for the buck gear...with unlimited cash all numbers could be 10-25% better...perhaps more)

My INT un buffed is about 400, buffed 1190ish.Dodge is in the 15% area.
Upping STR and Phy resist helped pets ALOT.

Pets tank just fine in inferno all acts and rarely, if ever die to ANY amount of( standard) mobs.
Pets( 4 dogs) can tank or last quite a while vs many types of blues and g!%#!s.Big pet lasts 4-5X as long..he is F'N tough.The nastiest molten+plague or lasers kill them fast.On these I release my 10 lil stabby midgets.
pets damage ( with current gear) is so so, BUT..the thorns do massive damage. Mobs kill themselves hitting the pets.pets regen faster then they take damage=stuff dies.ODD way to play , BUT it works..IMO its the best build for WD..perhaps other classes also.
To assist pets I buff my INT ( on 5 when I can) and cast my swarm DOT with last rune ( fire).Damage is average/low at best but it does the trick.
I have had hundreds of DH and wizzy and caster spec WD THANK me for having 4-14 uber tank pets. They get in the way , so casters/DH can DPS un affraid and safe.
Does it work...yes..WELL.In 3-4 man groups , I remove my dot and take voodoo with 20 IAS+30% damage rune.

As of right now, I have ( lol) 13000 life in inferno..and die less then others I have played with.

Farming Hell is a total joke now.Outside of a super rare blue group with perfect spells, NOTHING hurts me..at all.I can stand in Asmodans pools of acid /blood and take fireballs and just go afk while pets kill him.Same for other bosses.Diablo also.

if Blizz ever buffs pets or pet builds somehow, this will be perhaps the best class/build in the game.

*BTW whoever messaged me ( forgot name) I only use a blue 575 1 hander for now ( best I have found). has like 150 STR and 100 Dex .A massive 2 hander would let pets dps more THUS healing themselves and me more.( or a better 1 hander)\

Found where and how the chinese are gold /item farming in inferno.After several games with my pets, 10-15 of them invite me to game regular.Seems they LOVE the cover and dps boost I provide.On the plus side I made 200k gold/hour roughly and got a few decent items for alts. **Got a blue 998 xbow today.


post a video of your pets tanking elite packs and not dying instantly and i will be impressed. I would be extremely surprised to find out if your build is anything other than garbage though
Edited by Klaus#1320 on 6/3/2012 4:07 PM PDT
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06/03/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Jibikao
Can MoR stack with your +thorn damage? That seems awesome on paper but I don't think return-damage is worth it. I'll probably go with dodge-mantras or life-regen mantras.
Monk pets do not inherit equipment-based thorns damage. Only the Mantra. The Mantra itself is still quite potent, but given that your pet will also not inherit life steal, Health-on-Hit, or Health-per-second except via mantra, it's much more work to keep your pet alive as a monk.

Some of Monk's tactics may benefit his pet:

- Seize the Initiative: Armor is increased by 100% of your DEX (if our Horrify's +armor works for Garg, I can't see why this tactic can't work)

- Sixth Sense: Your dodge chance is increased by 30% of your critical chance (we found out that Dodge and Critical Chance are inherent to pets)

- The Guardian's Path: Dual Wield increases your Dodge chance

- One with Everything: Your resistance to all element is equal to your highest elemental resistance.

I don't visit Monk forum but if those tactics work with the pet, then it seems very possible to make a decent "tanker-pet" build? And doesn't Monk have a healing skill? I am sure he can heal the pet right when needed?

These tactics seem to directly affect Monk's stats so it's reasonable to assume that the pet gets it too? That just sounds very awesome on paper!
I don't know how inheritance works, so those may or may not be correct assumptions, but the Monk's heal is worth, at max, 9.5k life every 12 seconds. That's 791 life per second, or about half of the life/sec values some of the folks in this thread said they were getting from gear. That's assuming your pet is within 12 yards of you every time it needs a heal, which it may not be. (Pathing AI is, after all, not very good.) That's also a heal that's taking up a skill slot which you could have used on CC or an invulnerability button. (And remember, you're already using a slot on the pet itself. Now we're talking two skill slots on pets, one of which is strictly just to keep it alive.)

It's still possible in theory, but as I've said before, it's much harder for Monks to build for that. My bet would be that they wind up doing more work for the same results. But, hey, if you wanna shoot for it, by all means! Post us some pics of your spirit ally tanking stuff, it'll be a hoot!
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13k life is enough when u never get hit. My pets are always in the way.If I do take some damage I regen fast.As of now I am 3000 regen 3000 thorns 560 PHy resist.60% Dr.

Pets are working just fine.
fear,mass confuse and the 10 man midget hit squad are owning.

As for Klaus, try the build kid..THEN knock it.
Working great.
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13k life is enough when u never get hit. My pets are always in the way.If I do take some damage I regen fast.As of now I am 3000 regen 3000 thorns 560 PHy resist.60% Dr.

Pets are working just fine.
fear,mass confuse and the 10 man midget hit squad are owning.

As for Klaus, try the build kid..THEN knock it.
Working great.


thats a pretty cool video you posted
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05/29/2012 04:47 PMPosted by FASTCAR
Outside of a 2 barbs I have seen : 1 with 55 000 lfe and almost 1200/sec regen and another with 100 000 life...about everyone I have seen gets 1 shot in inferno.....including all pets.


lolwut?
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06/03/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Jibikao
Can MoR stack with your +thorn damage? That seems awesome on paper but I don't think return-damage is worth it. I'll probably go with dodge-mantras or life-regen mantras.
Monk pets do not inherit equipment-based thorns damage. Only the Mantra. The Mantra itself is still quite potent, but given that your pet will also not inherit life steal, Health-on-Hit, or Health-per-second except via mantra, it's much more work to keep your pet alive as a monk.


you dont need to....IT HAS NO COOLDOWN! earth ally has a taunt and 10% extra hp for you and the pet...it deals more damage, has a buff, and a taunt...oh wait...isnt that what our garg should do????
Edited by Vincent#1801 on 6/5/2012 12:21 AM PDT
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Well, I made it in solo and multi games to IZZY on Inferno.I have yet to kill him.(solo) I kite him and his buddies with pets NP...EVERYsingle time he casts some ungodly frost nova type spell that 70% of the screen..it 1 shots me and all pets.
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Posts: 296
Monks stack survivability, so their pets live; WDs don't, so theirs don't.
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