Diablo® III

Monk Dodge - a tale of Diminishing Returns

85 Worgen Rogue
4015
Posts: 116
So, I've got a monk in Act 3 Hell, with just over 1000 Dex, 24k HP, 33% reduction from armor, 35% reduction from resists, and 30% dodge from Dex.

My build is this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aZgiYh!UdY!ZcacYc
(except that
As you can see from that, I've got almost every dodge skill in there.

Here's the problem..
30% dodge from Dex
+
15% dodge from Mantra (passive)
+
15% dodge from Mantra (active)
+
15% dodge from The Guardian's Path
+
16% dodge from Lightning Fists rune.
=
91% right? ..no.. only comes out to 68%

Blizz, please remove the diminishing returns on dodge from monk skills (not dodge from dex!) so that this class can be more viable end game!
Edited by xXxDemoNxXx#1548 on 5/23/2012 2:47 PM PDT
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It's not diminishing returns, it's that Dodge in this case seems to be multiplicative.

Dodge does suffer diminishing returns from Dexterity eventually, though.
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Posts: 404
It isn't purely additive.
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Posts: 7
It's not diminishing returns. It's constant returns. What you described is increasing return.

It is multiplicative. Every added dodge basically dodges that % of the attacks left undodged.

Easier to think of it as % chance to get hit, then it's just straight up multiplicative.
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Whatever dodge you add is being applied to whatever chance you have to not dodge left.

Like if you have a full pie.

You eat half of it. Half of the pie remains.

Now you eat half of what is left.

You are only left with a quarter of the original pie.
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Huh, this is interesting...
Mind you, I'm just examining the dodge stat in the details list.
Take mantra of Evasion, its supposed to increase your evasion by 15%... But its really funky.

With nothing that increases dodge, aside from Dex. I have 25% chance to dodge.

So, lets take some math there.
25%+15% = 40%
25%x15% = 28.75%

Heres the reality
25%?15%=37.11%
or..
25%x48.44%=37.11%

With the aditional 15% for 3s
25%+30%=55%
25%x30%=32.5%
Reality
25%?30%=45.8%
25%x82.32%=45.8%

Something is really funky here...

When I use Guardians Path, My top end is 53.9%
so
25%+30%+15%=70%
25%x30%x15%=37.375%

Reality is...
25%?115.6%=53.9%

I really don't know what to think of this math...
Edited by Sinister#1803 on 5/23/2012 3:07 PM PDT
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Whatever dodge you add is being applied to whatever chance you have to not dodge left.

Like if you have a full pie.

You eat half of it. Half of the pie remains.

Now you eat half of what is left.

You are only left with a quarter of the original pie.

^ That. .7*.85*.85*.85*.84 = 0.36 = 64% dodge (4 less than you quoted even)
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So, lets take some math there.
25%+15% = 40%
25%x15% = 28.75%

Heres the reality
25%?15%=37.11%
or..
25%x48.44%=37.11%

With the aditional 15% for 3s
25%+30%=55%
25%x30%=32.5%
Reality
25%?30%=45.8%
25%x82.32%=45.8%

Something is really funky here...

When I use Guardians Path, My top end is 53.9%
so
25%+30%+15%=70%
25%x30%x15%=37.375%

Reality is...
25%?115.6%=53.9%

I really don't know what to think of this math...


25% dodge = 75% chance to be hit. 15% increased chance to dodge the remaining chance to be hit is thus .25 + (.75*.15) = 36.25%
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So, lets take some math there.
25%+15% = 40%
25%x15% = 28.75%

Heres the reality
25%?15%=37.11%
or..
25%x48.44%=37.11%

With the aditional 15% for 3s
25%+30%=55%
25%x30%=32.5%
Reality
25%?30%=45.8%
25%x82.32%=45.8%

Something is really funky here...

When I use Guardians Path, My top end is 53.9%
so
25%+30%+15%=70%
25%x30%x15%=37.375%

Reality is...
25%?115.6%=53.9%

I really don't know what to think of this math...


25% dodge = 75% chance to be hit. 15% increased chance to dodge the remaining chance to be hit is thus .25 + (.75*.15) = 36.25%


And yet, the stat in game, still does not match your math.

To reiterate, 25% is the flat value given, as thats the 'base' with dex.
when adding in that 15%, it 'should' be 36.25% you quoted. But the stat in game, is displayed as 37.11. somewhere there is 0.86% being added in from some unknown location.
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25% from dex + 15%+15% from dodge mantra:

1-(1-0,25)*(1-0,15)*(1-0,15)=0,458125 => 45,8125 %

25% from dex + 15%+15% from mantra +15% from passive:

1-(1-0,25)*(1-0,15)*(1-0,15)*(1-0,15)=0,53940625 => 53,940625 %

etc...
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