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I agree with OP. Just my two cents. But it could also be because I tend to pick on sequels, especially if its a sequel to something I loved. It just seems like they did almost TOO much change on Tyrael... Changing the voice actor, which isn't HORRIBLE, just makes him feel different to begin with. Now he's a maverick. I dunno, just seemed like too much change for me. I don't completely hate it, I'm just a picky !@#$%.
Its been answered before but Tyrael is not necessarily human - just mortal.
I see... so he is, basically, a human.
But you dont want to call him human.
Exactly my feelings. It just pains me a lot that we won't see his mysterious form- which was always fascinating to me.
The angels in Diablo does not have a "form" though. They are created by light and sound. While having body structure that resembles human anatomy, underneath the armor and garment there is nothing. Only light like the wings.
I agree, mortal Tyrael is super lame.
This is on the same line in WoW when they messed up the Lich King to just being Arthas, rather than Arthas + Ner'zhul as shown in the ending of the Frozen Throne.
Edited by Hypersonic#1142 on 6/6/2012 6:12 AM PDT
Let's look at this for what it really is:
In Norse Heathen lore the god of justice is named Tyr (Tiwaz in old anglo saxon). Tyr sacrificed his right hand so the Gods could bind the wolf Fenrir to stop him from destroying Asgaard. At Ragnarok, Fenrir breaks free from his bindings and destroys the land of men and kills Odin before being ripped in half by Odin's son. Tyr is still missing his hand and dies without it being "restored".
In Diablo III the archangel of justice is named Tyrael. Tyrael sacrificed his his immortal angel status to assist the humans in the binding of Azmodan and Belial into the black soul stone. Diablo breaks free and starts kickin @ss and taking names. Eventually his is killed (maybe...) and Tyrael is still mortal.
Coincidence? Well considering Blizzard's track record for taking plot and character ideas from Heathen lore, I'll say no (in WoW for example, there are some dwarves that you talk to. One of them mentions speaking "A little bit of titan, including some Vanir and Aesir." The Vanir were the gods of fertility like Freyr and the Aesir were the gods of war and justice like Thor.) I quit being offended at things like this a while ago because at least Blizzard doesn't blow the myths up completely. Last time I checked the Thor comics (or movies, which are even more blasphemous) don't mention the fact that his hammer was a gift...from Loki. Seriously.
What I'm trying to say is that, despite the fact that becoming mortal seems like a waste, Blizzard knew they couldn't name a figure of justice after Tyr without said character making some sort of sacrifice. Part of me is hoping a blue see's this and realizes that there actually are people out there that know where they are getting many of their ideas.
While I dont have a problem with blizzard developing Tyrael, I do too wish he could have remained an Archangel. He was always so badass and mysterious.
That's the heart of the issue, I think. He was the only visible representation of the heavens in D2, and he WAS mysterious. It left you wondering. The grand scheme of everything being obscured to the player by little lines hinting at the fact that they act in secrecy and are not entirely 'for' the idea of humanity - this was a satisfying feeling. Both Tyrael and Act IV were disappointing for me, as this feeling was lost and replaced by a feeling of "Apparently I can do your job better. So much for mystery, you feel pretty useless now."
My two cents :/
Edited by Tyrian#1246 on 6/8/2012 4:17 PM PDT
1. Tyrael had defied the laws of Heaven in aiding with the original binding of the prime evils, ie giving them the soul stones.
2. Tyrael interferes yet again when he helps the hero after he fights Diablo and Baal in Tal Rasha's Tomb.
3. In D3, Tyrael can no longer help, for whatever reason that is not explained, and must become mortal to... tell you where the next fetch quest is.
Other than opening a few gates (which are in hell, ironically a not forbidden area...) and providing the location of Belial which could have be introduced by ANY other character, Tryrael serves ZERO purpose as a mortal. In fact is an enormous logical and lore break. How can an aspect, a thing created out of something, become something completely different.
What happens to Justice? Is justice dead now? What embodies and brings justice into creation? Why did wisdom leave? Is there no wisdom left? Are all the tails and information brought down by Cain not wisdom?
The lore just doesn't make any sense. D1/D2 lore made sense. Blizzard let Metzen !@#$ it up, and now we have a smorgesborge of crap strewn all over the place. The great and mighty Tyrael who showed up when things were at their worst (when you realized that Baal, In Tal Rasha's body, an impressively powerful sorcerer himself, has been set free and Diablo is beating you Tyrael is there to tell you that you still have a chance, when the world stone has been corrupted and must be destroyed before the fabric dividing the moral realm from the burning hells dissolves). Face it, Blizzard has WoWified Diablo, in lore, in style, in form, and in corniness.
It is futile to try to piece a reason for Tyrael's change. We should all get magic 8-balls to answer any questions or concerns we have about lore/characterizations of any blizzard game, that seems to be the technique that Metzen uses to expand lore.
I think you already answer your own question. Because angels are bound to inaction rule.
He must have realized this, thus tearing off his wings.
Edited by Xso2Hvn#6623 on 6/18/2012 3:04 AM PDT
Tyreal was so cool in D2.
The problem started when they gave two different characters the same name.
I mean, when you're making a story, how hard would it have been to name the second Tyreal something like Fred, so we wouldn't get them confused?
And, yes, Fred was a very weak character.
I think he chose to remain mortal to further understand the mortals' needs and help them fight together. The reason why he has become the angel of wisdom is just an implication that amongst mortal, his divine knowledge could be an important guidance to the nephalems.
As nephalems possess both divine and evil within them, Tyrael believe that humanity can be saved, and that his divine knowledge could lead the nephalem to realise the good side of themselve, and indirectly turn the tide of battle against the evil.
Tyrael's sacrilege had help him learn a lot about things where he don't understand previously as Archangel, something he himself have sense it from the very beginning and that he couldn't understand, nor other Archangels like Imperius.
Think bout it, when there's Archangel of Fate, what is the use of Archangel of Justice? doesn't it make Tyrael an unique aspects out of the council? His role is destined to protect the innocent, which is why he could not stop helping the nephalem and believing in humanity.
I do think Diablo (or whoever) will take the fight to Tyrael in future, i just realized in the ending vid where Diablo was falling, he didn't actually fully burn into ashes, at the end he turn into the Black Soulstone and fell to the Sanctuary.
I can't wait to know the lore of the expansion, as claimed by Blizzard to be released around end of 2014 or 2015.
They do need to bring back the bloodshed style of play of old diablo series tho, this is not WoW nor SC. :(
I think the Tyrael part was probably the 'strongest' story part of the game to be honest.
I was surprised that he was black (or tan, whatever) but upon reflection I certainly couldn't picture him with white skin. A darker skin tone perfectly fits in my mind. Preferably I still like angels without a face though because it adds to the mystery. Sometimes less is more, especially when you leave it to your own imagination to think what he would look like. It's probably why Nintendo doesn't give Link a voice (at least a consistent talking voice) because it would ruin it for a lot of people. I think this applies to Tyrael as well, but I think the face they chose was the best possible one.
I was really hoping he would return to angelic form in the final cinematic. The angel wings and persona of the Arch Angels is just so !@#$ing bad %^-. Being mortal isn't necessarily lame, but Angels in this franchise are just so bad *!@. I find myself usually cheering for or being fascinated with demons in a lot of franchises, and I certainly am with a lot of the forces of hell in this game.. but I can say that unlike everything pretty much everywhere else I do like Angels in the Diablo Universe.
As to Wisdom. It's certainly not as cool as Justice and while a lot of the one liners and snappy lines in the game are lame, I really did enjoy Tyrael's "You cannot judge me, for I am justice itself!" line. Wisdom is partly explained while Tyrael is mortal although it's not fully expanded on. He mostly states how fascinated he is with the human races thirst for knowledge and how arrogant angels are thinking that they know absolutely everything. Sure it doesn't fully explain it, but I guess it outlines that he is indeed interested in knowledge and wisdom?
All in all it's not bad. I just wish Tyrael would get his wings back!
Also I took him being mortal as just being an Angel that doesn't have wings and can actually die. I don't think that he is or ever will be a human. He just looks like a Human, and considering Angels are humanoid shapes anyway, it's not that big of a stretch!
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