Diablo® III

Is it only me who hates Tyrael as Mortal?

Yes it doesn't make sense for him to remain mortal. If he truly wanted to help he would become an Archangel again so that he could continue to help the Nephalim even in the future. His decision to remain mortal was brought on for solely selfish reasons.

This is of course forgetting how nonsensical it is for an angel to become mortal when they were never actually alive in the first place.
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I don't understand how Tyrael thinks becoming mortal will make him better at representing justice or wisdom. I doubt immortal warrior angels are going to value his advice when he's old and feeble.

Also in game Tyrael doesn't do anything as a mortal that he couldn't do as an angel. Seriouslt he could have just descended from heaven to open a gates for the player in act 3 (in act 4 he just needs to open the gate).
Edited by uanime5#2771 on 6/29/2012 5:40 PM PDT
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05/27/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Melyria
Because with Imperius in charge, the likely result of an angelic action on Sanctuary would be to nuke it and all the humans.


So what is stopping Imperius to nuke sanctuary after Tyrael becomes human? He was the only one who voted in favor of keeping Sanctuary. Now that Tyrael is gone, and there is no more wisdom to govern the angels Imperius should nuke Sanctuary immediately.

And Tyrael ripping his wings of and going to earth to warn the humans that... something, is sort of cheating. If him doing it as an angel was forbidden, they must of forbade him doing it, not how he did it. Otherwise it sort of defeats the point. Imperius could have castrated the human race not killing anyone but watching the last human generation after Tyrael broke his destruction vote. So obviously they wanted to stop the action of interfering not the way they did it. Human or angel Tyrael should not have been permited to warn the humans that... something was happening. BTW, if anyone knows what that "something" is email it to pizzarolls@redlettermedia.net. I think Mr. Plinkett would have a laugh.
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Tyrael ripping his wings off in protest at the injustice of the Angiris council doing nothing is the most powerful imagery so far in this franchise, and there have been a few amazing Tyrael moments but I think this one tops the list. This was a definite gut punch and I still get goosebumps watching that cinematic. That was an awesome Tyreal moment.

I secretly also relish Imperious getting smacked around by Diablo and I'm very concerned about what a mortal Tyreal means when Imperious turns to Wrath and decides to deal with Tyreal. Tyreal is now like a blight on the Angiris counci and a constant reminder of that entire episode. I don't think for one second Imperious will let Tyreal just say oh hey I'm back, still a mortal, and now your wisdom dude without protest.

Can Tyreal even defend himself against an enraged Imperious?

Sure I miss the angelic Tyreal form and want it back but I think he needed to strip off the angelic limitations in order to further evolve. Being mortal probably gives him a bit more flexibility in free will and definitely gives him some insights he didn't have before even if he's not human. I think also his mortal status acts as a constant reminder to angels about Sanctuary so they can't just pretend it doesn't exist anymore and will have to deal with humans/nephalem. I hope we get a continuation soon so we can see what comes of all this.
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07/08/2012 02:18 PMPosted by Elm
yrael ripping his wings off in protest at the injustice of the Angiris council doing nothing is the most powerful imagery so far in this franchise, and there have been a few amazing Tyrael moments but I think this one tops the list. This was a definite gut punch and I still get goosebumps watching that cinematic. That was an awesome Tyreal moment.


I'll grant you that it was impressive. No one debates that. Looked cool and made some sort of sense at the time.
Problem is the cluster!@#$ that came after that. Tyrael is pathetic as a mortal, and does absolutely nothing. He follows you around clueless, opens 2 doors and has sort of a doubt moment at the end and recovers as... wisdom? What? Why?
- the guy who couldn't see who Belial was because he was too busy polishing his sword in the camp in act 2?
- the guy who couldn't see through Adria's betrayal even though we saw it from the beginning?
- the guy who worked with the Horadrims and the soulstones and now forgets to even ask Adria what will she do to destroy the lords of hell from the Black Plothole as he was never able to do it himself... as a freakin archangel?

See? these are the issues everyone has with him being mortal. He sucks... badly. If he would have kept his hood on (no issues with him being black, it's just that he seems way too human), kept his angelic voice and actually did stuff in the game that mattered no one would have had issues with him wingless. He was cool in D2, and they took everything from him. There is nothing left to like, including him as a mortal wisom on the angiric council. That's just stupid in my book.

And as he is right now, I actually wish that Imperius would murder his damned face, that way he might actually come back as an angel and have the power to do stuff. Unfortunately i lost all confidence in Metzen's ability to write.
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07/08/2012 10:57 PMPosted by Sovereign
Problem is the cluster!@#$ that came after that. Tyrael is pathetic as a mortal, and does absolutely nothing. He follows you around clueless, opens 2 doors and has sort of a doubt moment at the end and recovers as... wisdom? What? Why?


The game did a poor job of showing him in action and preferred to keep him in with the other NPCs for our convenience. He was running around doing stuff in Caldeum which was admittedly lame because that entire plot arc was lame. However, he took charge of the defense at Bastion Keep and got the humans organized and holding things together while we did our part. That was implied with the various NPC chatter about Tyrael being a wonderful commander and glad we have him. I imagine this is supposed to be like when Aragorn rallied Helm's Deep. We just don't get to see the epic Tyrael parts because we are doing our epic thing (which I realy did enjoy).

Tyrael is mortal now and likely feels that wisdom is more needed from him than justice since he's the only angel who is mortal, who cares about humans, and the angels really need a bit of wisdom about what to do with this growing nephalem issue. Who knows, maybe he can be Justice tempered with Wisdom and keep from being too lame.
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Nobody likes it. They ruined Tyrael. It's largely a case of oversaturation. You saw him very little in D2 and D2X, and he had very little dialogue as well. When you did see him, when he did speak, it meant something. Aesthetically he had a very cool, unique appearance; the lack of a face emphasized his aloof, mysterious nature. He liked humans but you had a sense he had his own agenda and other things to do. After everything you've done, all he has to say is, "I'm impressed, mortal." You did good, kid... see you around.

In D3 he's all over the dang place, hanging out in town all the time, he talks to you constantly and brown-noses you, sings praises for mankind while dumping on his fellow angels, and even pops up now and then like "Hey bro, I'm bored, let's go dungeon crawling together!" Then he goes all emo in Act 4 for a while. Like I said, they ruined him. I hope we don't see much of him in the expansion.
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It's really cool, that more and more people are taking voice on this subject, it's good to know other opinions, and I'm glad to see that I'm not the one.

And the more opinions I read the more I am ensuring myself that this "transformation" didn't make sense, and and it was very convenient change for writers.

I also consider it as heart warming that people want him back. I can only play that developers will use the Ureh concept to do it, I also think that the Jewel which Shen is looking for is actually the powerful and dangerous jewel that is positioned at the top of Ureh's mountain (but no one knows bout it's "twin" beneath the mountain). The jewels had the power to bring people from dead, and played huge role in conflic between angels and demons. It could be very powerful to bring Tyrael's powers back.

I was playing with Scoundrel as my follower to Witch Doctor, and in Act 4 he asked Tyrael if he can get his wings back, Tyrael responded that he will be lucky enough if he will survive this.
I know that Scounderl would have no idea about the consequences and such, but it gives a hope that he can be back as Aspect of Justice.

But as you already mentioned. He is already abit destroyed, in mortal form he is too talkative, too lame, and too moody. He wanders most of the time being completely clueless and then - oh surprise- he wants to represent wisdom.

Dude! Who cares for wisdom, it's justice we all actually need. This is what actually matters.
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I totally agree with everything you said luksus. So theres not much for me to say
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07/09/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Elm
However, he took charge of the defense at Bastion Keep and got the humans organized and holding things together while we did our part. That was implied with the various NPC chatter about Tyrael being a wonderful commander and glad we have him. I imagine this is supposed to be like when Aragorn rallied Helm's Deep. We just don't get to see the epic Tyrael parts because we are doing our epic thing (which I realy did enjoy).


Firstly what happened to the Commander of Bastion's Keep? You think Tyrael would be working with them because they would have a good understanding of the Keep and it's defences. Unfortunately because Blizzard wanted to make Tyrael seem like a hero they never show him discussing anything with the people who run this Keep. So Tyrael is the commander but we're never told why he was made commander.

Secondly the people don't praise Tyrael and are mainly worried for their lives. No one ever mentions anything Tyrael has done that is useful (things the player doesn't don't count). They say they're happy to have an angel here but they'd say that even if Tyrael was just standing around doing nothing.

Thirdly even when the Keep is attacked by demons Tyrael doesn't do anything. Literally there are demons across the hall from him but he doesn't call for more guards, or take any precautions to try and keep the demons out. This makes it seem like he doesn't know what he should be doing.

Fourthly why did they believe Tyrael when he says he's an angel? He doesn't have any proof of this.

Tyrael is mortal now and likely feels that wisdom is more needed from him than justice since he's the only angel who is mortal, who cares about humans, and the angels really need a bit of wisdom about what to do with this growing nephalem issue. Who knows, maybe he can be Justice tempered with Wisdom and keep from being too lame.


The problem is that throughout the game Tyrael is never depicted as wise. He never gives the player any advice, doesn't move the plot forward, and rarely helps anyone. Decard Cain was wise because he was able to explain about the Horadric Staff and Khalim's Will in D2, in D3 Tyrael is shown as an idiot who can't explain anything.
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Tyreal should have something to eat. He shouldn't be the Angel of Wisdom on an empty stomach.
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07/13/2012 05:16 PMPosted by uanime5
The problem is that throughout the game Tyrael is never depicted as wise. He never gives the player any advice, doesn't move the plot forward, and rarely helps anyone. Decard Cain was wise because he was able to explain about the Horadric Staff and Khalim's Will in D2, in D3 Tyrael is shown as an idiot who can't explain anything.


Cain wasn't very wise either for most of his life. He just happened to collect knowledge. Perhaps Tyrael's 'wisdom' is in the form of being the bridge between humans and angels since he now has experienced both worlds.

I like how Tyrael has evolved from his boy kicking anthill to see what happens persona in the Sin War books. But I do hope he has to regain his angelic form since I like seeing exotic powerful beings in my fantasy games, not humans which I see in real life every day.
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You can all rest easy, folks.

Diablo 3 has been made non-canon.
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07/16/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Elm
Cain wasn't very wise either for most of his life. He just happened to collect knowledge. Perhaps Tyrael's 'wisdom' is in the form of being the bridge between humans and angels since he now has experienced both worlds.


I liked how Cain was able to explain what the various plot items were for in acts 2 and 3, and explain who everyone was in all the acts because he was so knowledgeable. Had Tyrael been more like that he would have come across as wise.

Unfortunately in Act 1 he doesn't know anything because he lost his sword. In Act 2 Adria, not Tyrael decides what we're doing. In Act 3 he does give some quests but he never appears to be knowledgeable. In Act 4 he mopes and doesn't contribute much. Ultimately Tyrael comes across as a warrior, not a wise man.
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Black guy named Tyrael is terrible. Only thing he can do is open a few doors, otherwise he is pointless. Give us the real Tyrael, the angel one.
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03/27/2014 09:27 AMPosted by Sibrand
Black guy named Tyrael is terrible. Only thing he can do is open a few doors, otherwise he is pointless. Give us the real Tyrael, the angel one.


You mean Tyrone?

It's what my friends and I have taken to calling him.
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What you forget is that had Tyrael not taken that tumble out of Heaven, There would have been no falling star for the Nephalem heroes of this game to follow and converge upon in New Tristram.

Literally, not only did Tyrael show up and act the part of badass before the whole Angiris Council, he is the reason our heroes even met!

And sure, because of us the Prime Evil is born. But then we personally beat Evil Incarnate to death with our fists (or whatever just happened to by laying around). Then we kicked Death's teeth into the back of his hood.

We tore down centuries of planning from Diablo, stopped a mad angel of Death, and kept Zoltan Kulle from becoming the next bearded Anu.

All of this happened because Tyrael fell from the sky, and had he not, Azmodan and Belial would still have stormed Sanctuary unopposed.
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Ya good job falling down from the heaven like a stone Tyrael. Well done.
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