Diablo® III

How to tell when Bow + Quiver > 2x Crossbow?

Hello, title says it all really, I have a few quivers and a bow and 2 crossbows. I mean obviously 2x xbows will outdamage a bow + quiver but I guess some bonuses on the quiver are worth it?

Thanks.
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The attack speed bonus on the quiver (11%), is a way more useful stat than an extra amount of damage, however....i also use a quiver that gives DEX, Attack Speed, Life Steal, crit damage, and it has a socket, which i put DEX in.

While yes i have a dex build i also look for other stats like attack speed/crit/crit damage/life steal......but the 2h bow+quiver so far is about 300-500 more dps than 2 1hxbows.
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87 Human Warrior
6265
I've seen a few people post about it, and I have yet to find a decent 2h bow, but from what I've read and experienced myself it seems that a good 1h bow with a quiver seems to do more dps than a 2h/quiver or 2x1h crossbows. Don't take my word for it though, my DH is only 27 though so this could most certainly prove wrong at higher levels.
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Okay thanks, I'll look for an +attack speed quiver.
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All of them increase your attack speed. Remember, when dual wielding, you alternate between weapons with a 15% increased attack speed. This means while wielding two, you deal dps equal to the average of both times 1.15.
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You won't exactly have to look very hard =P They all have +atck speed
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This means while wielding two, you deal dps equal to the average of both times 1.15.


So essentially, I'm not really adding the two damage amounts from both xbows?

Oh and thanks for letting me know all quivers have +attack speed, lol.
Edited by ShadowTitan#1793 on 5/19/2012 6:06 PM PDT
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Listen, you don't technically get more damage from DW. You get a 15% attk speed buff.

If you had a bow with 100dps and 2 DW1hxbows each with 100dps your total dps would be 115dps while with the bow and quiver it would be like 110dps. Run 1hxbow with quiver if you have to. Press 'c', mouse over damage.

Use the best items currently at your disposal and always run 'archery'. If your best items happen to be 1h hizzy I recommend looking in to nightstalker as well. Steady aim or the rising crit passive would be bows/2hxbows equivalent of nightstalker in terms of specializing your character, however steady aim

PERSONALLY, I find rapid fire utterely useless. The only function it seems to serve is unloading at times when safety is not an issue.. and if safety is not an issue then impale and mark of death are the better burst combination anyway.. and allow you to move around freely.

Also my ethos on people who pick steady aim over archery... If im safe to auto spam then do I really need to down enemies a few seconds quicker with no risk to party survive? Is that really the shortcoming of the class that needs compensation? Personally I find the answer to be no, mark of death is how I contribute dmg FOR my group , otherwise stun bola for champions/elites in hell onwards... these guys are usually harder and less predictable than actual bosses if you ask me.
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05/19/2012 06:10 PMPosted by NodeUK
Also my ethos on people who pick steady aim over archery... If im safe to auto spam then do I really need to down enemies a few seconds quicker with no risk to party survive? Is that really the shortcoming of the class that needs compensation? Personally I find the answer to be no, mark of death is how I contribute dmg FOR my group , otherwise stun bola for champions/elites in hell onwards... these guys are usually harder and less predictable than actual bosses if you ask me.


Seems you are letting your 'ethos' get in the way of game mechanics. 10 yards is alot shorter than you think. Vault for example covers 35 yards. If I'm at less than 1 third of distance from what vault covers, well that's less than the radius of a caltrop/spike trap. I won't be attacking even if I don't have steady aim (unless of course I'm cheesing with god mode aka smoke screen).
Edited by Haela#1854 on 5/19/2012 6:49 PM PDT
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I use the passive Archery so when I go 2h Bow I focus on attack speed/dmg items. When I use hand crossbows I focus on critical strike and select my runes around that.
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Okay, thanks for all the useful info so far guys. For judging damage, what's best to look at? Damage Per Second, Damage, or Attacks Per Second?
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Damage is dps essentially.
It is the pretty much the best stat you can get. Attack speed is a good boost but without a high base dmg attack speed won't do much. Dex also increases your dmg by 1% for every stat which again needs lots of base dmg to be useful.
For example if you have a 20 dps bow, and you have 100 dex, you'll be doing 40 dps. If you had a 10dps bow but 200 dex, you'll only be doing 20 dps. 10% AS boost will increase that to only a mere 22 dps. However if you have 1000 dps and you got 10% AS you will be doing 100 more damage same with dex every dex point will increase your dmg by 10 which is a lot.
Just find a good balance of both and you'll be set.
Edited by Deikan#1506 on 5/20/2012 12:01 AM PDT
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Well, im pretty sure the math works out well in favor of 2h+quiver .

100dmg bow x 2 + 15% aspd with the bows alternating = 115 dps. Now with 2h xbow + quiver you are not actually getting 110 dps - you will be getting +10-12% ASPD also from the quiver, which is almost as much as the dual weild, and about 200dps base because 2h bows tend to have almost double the base dps of 1h bows. So you get 200+ 22 = 222 dps as opposed to 115. I dont see the point of dual weilding then, or of using bows because their min-max damage is too far apart and makes dps unreliable. 2h xbow+quiver seems to be the way to go.

One thing to consider is with excellent equips - and a lot of dex, two xbows could bring in a lot of modifiers- lifesteal, life on kill, fear. A life steal build could do very well with dw or a fear build. With imaple stuns though I dont see the point of modifier builds - we have slows and stuns built in to the class. vamp is probably viable. but not very useful, from what i know so far of the game. maybe for pvp?
Listen, you don't technically get more damage from DW. You get a 15% attk speed buff.

If you had a bow with 100dps and 2 DW1hxbows each with 100dps your total dps would be 115dps while with the bow and quiver it would be like 110dps. Run 1hxbow with quiver if you have to. Press 'c', mouse over damage.

Use the best items currently at your disposal and always run 'archery'. If your best items happen to be 1h hizzy I recommend looking in to nightstalker as well. Steady aim or the rising crit passive would be bows/2hxbows equivalent of nightstalker in terms of specializing your character, however steady aim

PERSONALLY, I find rapid fire utterely useless. The only function it seems to serve is unloading at times when safety is not an issue.. and if safety is not an issue then impale and mark of death are the better burst combination anyway.. and allow you to move around freely.

Also my ethos on people who pick steady aim over archery... If im safe to auto spam then do I really need to down enemies a few seconds quicker with no risk to party survive? Is that really the shortcoming of the class that needs compensation? Personally I find the answer to be no, mark of death is how I contribute dmg FOR my group , otherwise stun bola for champions/elites in hell onwards... these guys are usually harder and less predictable than actual bosses if you ask me.
Edited by roflcopter#1651 on 5/20/2012 1:13 AM PDT
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85 Orc Death Knight
9140
I would just like to add that maths aside there seems to be a small advantage to running 1h x-bows and that is the ability to theoretically infinite spam hungering arrow + ball Lightning(Impale on bosses with small down time) by alternating between the 2 skills

or in turn other combos due to each weapon firing its own shot i tried the same tactic with a 2h but it was to slow to be effective (Possibly with higher ATK SP it would work)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aRXVTZ!YeT!YaZYZZ

Lvl 53 Demon Hunter
Normal - Nightmare - Hell (Current) - Inferno
Edited by Kibaa#1332 on 5/20/2012 7:15 AM PDT
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05/20/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Boomtown
don't forget that 1-h bows have a significantly lower minimum damage compared to 2-h+quiver. I've found my biggest dps increase was when i went to 2h crossbow from 2x 1h bows. Sure you shoot faster but the damage is much more inconsistent.


Am I taking crazy pills? Because I haven't been seeing this, myself. Damage of 1h and 2h bows seems to be pretty comparable at various levels from what I've seen. Same with melee weapons.
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85 Orc Death Knight
9140
05/20/2012 07:21 AMPosted by Thrage
don't forget that 1-h bows have a significantly lower minimum damage compared to 2-h+quiver. I've found my biggest dps increase was when i went to 2h crossbow from 2x 1h bows. Sure you shoot faster but the damage is much more inconsistent.


Am I taking crazy pills? Because I haven't been seeing this, myself. Damage of 1h and 2h bows seems to be pretty comparable at various levels from what I've seen. Same with melee weapons.


DPS is close but the actual DMG range of the weapons are not 2h shoot slower but 1h shoot faster thus similer DPS but different dmg range
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Ah, right, that makes sense. Still don't see why it should matter.
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Something to keep in mind is the fact that all of your skills are based off of your raw weapon damage. Attack speed is actually, in my opinion, one of the least important aspects for a DH just because you aren't going to get a chance to fire consecutively for very long in any given situation. My experience is that I always kite everything, so I'll fire one shot, reposition, fire another, reposition, etc. etc. such that attack speed is completely irrelevant.

I think the jury's still out on how attack speed affects our skills, but even if it does there are similarly few situations where you'll be able to spam any given skill for long enough for it to matter. Especially given the need to upkeep your hatred.

That said, the damage spread on 2-h Crossbows are markedly smaller than either Bows or 1-h Crossbows. I tried out a pretty baller Bow a while back and the spread on my skill damage was absolutely unbearable - it wasn't reliable enough for me to think "Okay, if I hit this guy with two more Impales he'll go down," which is something I do consistently while using a 2-h Crossbow. Additionally, because the attack speed on 2-h Crossbows are much lower, the base weapon damage is necessarily much higher for their DPS to be similar. That means that all skills you use will be working off of higher base damage, resulting in higher skill damage output. Seems like it's absolutely no contest in favor of the 2-h Crossbow. Just my thoughts. Currently plowing through Act 2 Hell, so maybe Inferno is an entirely different story.
Edited by Psychosis#1748 on 5/20/2012 7:35 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
7440
05/20/2012 07:33 AMPosted by Psychosis
because the attack speed on 2-h Crossbows are much lower, the base weapon damage is necessarily much higher for their DPS to be similar

You have that backwards the base damage max for bows is much higher than crossbows since crossbows attack faster thus need a lower damage to be roughly equivalent.
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