Diablo® III

The Black Plot-holestone.

Posts: 3,039
So after having beaten Normal and finding every lore book I could and listening to all of the dialogues I am still confused about the Black Soulstone and it's related plot points in general. I'll just start from the beginning:

How is it that Zoltun Kulle couldn't be killed by the Horardrim, but could be by us so easily? He didn't even do any of the things mentioned he was doing to them in the lore books (blood turning to sand, eluding them, casting curses on them, etc.). He just didn't seem to live up to that image of power (especially when his fight mostly involves dealing with adds instead of directly with him).

When you destroy the original soulstones in Diablo 2, it is said that the souls of the prime evils return to the Black Abyss where they were formed and it is implied that this is part of Hell from which all demons are spawned. In the book of Cain demons are formed from the husk of Tathamet, being the lands of Hell itself, and that the Black Abyss is some empty void of an area outside both Heaven and Hell, but it's still where their souls went after the stones were destroyed... Cain even describes how a black void opens to pull their souls in after the stones are shattered on the Hellforge. How the hell are their souls around in Sanctuary for Adria to "mark" so they will be absorbed into the Black Soulstone? The only ones that that makes sense for is Andariel and Duriel since they didn't have soulstones.

If the prime and lesser evil's souls were lingering in Sanctuary to be marked by Adria then why has everything been quiet for 20 years? They would have been up to their old schemes of corrupting mankind like they did before the Horadrim trapped them.

And how did Adria even track them down if they were capable of moving freely without being imprisoned in the stones? Surely they were all unwillingly captured in the Black Soulstone so how did they somehow get outwitted by this random witch?

Why is it that Diablo is the dominant personality in the Prime Evil? Is it because Leah was the Dark Wanderer's kid? Why does that really matter? Why doesn't he use the abilities of the other Evils more instead of just using a lot of his old moves?

Why did the final cinematic show Diablo's corpse falling and disintegrating when it was laying before us after we killed him? Every other time Diablo was defeated, his body morphed back into his vessel according to even the Book of Cain. So why didn't he turn back into Leah? And why was he falling anyway? Did they seriously just throw his body over the side or is that how his death really went and the corpse thing was just so there was something for the loot to spew out of?

Why did they allow the Black Soulstone to fall like that? It was stressed multiple times that it wouldn't be able to contain all of those powerful demon's souls for very long so they should have shattered it like Adria was faking to want to do, right? Wouldn't they all just be able to escape the stone and come back now?

What happens when something falls from Heaven like that? Does it really just fall down to Sanctuary? It's always been implied that Heaven and Hell are physically in some far-off corner of the universe far away from Sanctuary so that wouldn't make sense. It seemed like the only reason Tyrael fell to Sanctuary was because that is where he was intending on going after turning himself mortal. Would the Black Soulstone just be floating around in the emptiness of space now? In that case couldn't seven Evils just get out easily and make their way back to Hell?

Why didn't Diablo or Adria just kill Tyrael when they had the chance, and how do our characters just stand by and let this crap happen and where does she go and what does she do after Diablo is destroyed (again)?

I really hope some (if not all) of these things are addressed in future games/books (along with other loose ends like Malthael's whereabouts and the implications of a mortal Angiris Council member) and soon because the plot device of the Black Soulstone and its surrounding story elements didn't make a whole lot of sense...
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Posts: 3,039
05/25/2012 03:52 AMPosted by fullfathom5
Considering the Wanderer didn't really hang around Tristram long enough to score with any chicks...the Black Dullstone is the least of our worries....


Thanks for the bump, troll...
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85 Night Elf Warrior
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Posts: 2,745
"How is it that Zoltun Kulle couldn't be killed by the Horardrim,"
-Well, i think they killed him, they even got his head apart from his body....But his powers apparently was beyond life and death, as his sould could come back from the dead in D3.

-About the soulstones: We had to destroy them because they were corrupted, thanks to Izual's Betrayal. And instead of imprisoning the souls of the prime evils, they were actually acting as a conduit for their power, and thus, had to be destroyed. Now with the blacksoulstone, it was not kinda corrupted, but it was created by Kulle and was locked away from Adria all those 20 years. But in the moment we reach the room in which the stone is, the souls of the prime evils get into it, for the surprise of Kulle, thus making him turn against us, considering us as just mere pupetts of the evils/angels, and not a real nefalem.
However, the only reason i can think of to explain how the souls of the prime evils could get from the black abyss into the stone is that Adria, using of her dark and misterious powers, and controlled by Diablo, could anyhow control their souls. Since Adria have acess to hell and all through that red portal in which she escaped when we first met the PRIME EVIL, i think she could be able to acess this Black Abyss as well, since it is part of hell, which was spawned fro mtathamet as well. Not much explanation on what exactly is this black abyss other than "the place where the demons come from" though. Before someone come up with the idea of Adria being Lilith, i would say that NO, she is not her, because Lilith is trapped in the VOID, not in the black abyss, and even if she were somehow set free from there, she always wanted to extinguis both heaven AND hell, os i don't believe she would fall into Diablo's control....
Still on the blacksoulstone, the only reason we seek to destroy it is that both tyrael, Leah, an Adria, tells us to do it in order to extinguish the evils inside. But we know that this won't do nothing more than just sending them back to the abyss and start the cycle again. The real question is, how did Diablo took control over the other great evils souls, even Mefisto's one, which is the greatest Evil, to become the ultimate evil? Why the look of the Prime Evil is Diablo's and not Duriel's or Baal's for example? No explanation for this i think. And there is no reason to actually destroy the blacksoustone, because it is contraditory the fact that we already know that by destroying the soulstones will only send them back to the abyss....

Now concerning yout other questions, i'm so lost as you about them. I Don't know why did this all happened they way that it did, and how things could go better now that a mortal is occupying the place of wisdom as the "leader?" of the angiris council....

The stone falling from the heavens....it is Heaven supposed to have such thing as gravity in there? Heaven is above sanctuary? I think not as well, since sanctuary lies in another dimension, and there are other dimensions with other places like sanctuary, and other stars even in the dimension where sanctuary lies, as we can see on one of the cinematics.

Such questions will probably be adressed to sometime, but maybe not all of them. Some things will just be as foggy as they are in real life, especially concerning heavens and hell and those kind of things so abstract.
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05/25/2012 03:52 AMPosted by fullfathom5
Considering the Wanderer didn't really hang around Tristram long enough to score with any chicks...the Black Dullstone is the least of our worries....


Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh he scored with Adria....
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05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
How is it that Zoltun Kulle couldn't be killed by the Horardrim, but could be by us so easily?


Because we are Nephalem. Take a look at some of the Sin War books. When Nephalem killed foes, they sometimes -unmade- them, unwoven the fabric of magic, reality, and power that allowed them to exist. It's very possible we did the same to Kulle, or that he's still in fact alive and may have even been shamming his own death.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
How the hell are their souls around in Sanctuary for Adria to "mark" so they will be absorbed into the Black Soulstone?


Izual told the primes how to corrupt their Soulstones. Thus, far from being prisons, they became conduits of the Prime Evils' power. When the Soulstones were destroyed, we -know- they'd been corrupted. It's highly possible their souls were sent back to Sanctuary, rather than remaining in Hell or going to the Abyss because of this. Remember, this whole madness with the Black Soulstone has been Diablo's plot since the first game. No doubt -he- helped to mark the other Evils to bind their souls to Sanctuary, and all Adria had to do after was mark them again to enter the Black Soulstone once Kulle completed it.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
If the prime and lesser evil's souls were lingering in Sanctuary to be marked by Adria then why has everything been quiet for 20 years?


Without corrupted soulstones to act as a conduit for their powers, what -can- they do?

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
And how did Adria even track them down if they were capable of moving freely without being imprisoned in the stones? Surely they were all unwillingly captured in the Black Soulstone so how did they somehow get outwitted by this random witch?


We're talking about a woman whom had instructions and knowledge from the Lord of Terror personally. That's how she tracked them down and outwitted them; she was a pawn, a servant of a truly cunning and powerful evil.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
Why is it that Diablo is the dominant personality in the Prime Evil? Is it because Leah was the Dark Wanderer's kid? Why does that really matter? Why doesn't he use the abilities of the other Evils more instead of just using a lot of his old moves?


If the Black Soulstone had been used on Azmodan, -he- would have become the Prime Evil, he says so himself. No doubt, the fact Leah -is- the Dark Wanderer's daughter is all Diablo needed to become the dominant evil in the new vessel. As for not using other evil's techniques, the transformation had been very recent; given time, no doubt, the new Prime Evil would have learned how to better harness -all- the collective power of the Lords of Hell.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
Why did the final cinematic show Diablo's corpse falling and disintegrating when it was laying before us after we killed him? Every other time Diablo was defeated, his body morphed back into his vessel according to even the Book of Cain. So why didn't he turn back into Leah? And why was he falling anyway? Did they seriously just throw his body over the side or is that how his death really went and the corpse thing was just so there was something for the loot to spew out of?


Chances are the body was chucked off the edge, or in canon story, we killed Diablo near the edge and he/she/it plummeted. Previously when Diablo was defeated, he wasn't the -Prime- Evil, he was just -a- Prime Evil. No doubt that kind of concentrated evil is more than enough to obliterate any trace of the original host body.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
What happens when something falls from Heaven like that?


It's not known. Not everything will be.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
Would the Black Soulstone just be floating around in the emptiness of space now? In that case couldn't seven Evils just get out easily and make their way back to Hell?


Possible for the Seven Evils to escape, assuming that being defeated as the Prime Evil hasn't destroyed them. Not to mention they were also bested by a Nephalem, and as said before, they've been known to -unmake- their foes when they kill them.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
Why didn't Diablo or Adria just kill Tyrael when they had the chance, and how do our characters just stand by and let this crap happen and where does she go and what does she do after Diablo is destroyed (again)?


Diablo, in the Book of Cain, if often described as an artist of terror. He views each mortal as a canvas, and paints a unique, individual picture of terror and fear on each. Tyrael, as a long time foe, would no doubt, in his new mortal form, be a nice little canvas Diablo would want to use over, and over, and over... As for us allowing Adria to get away, what were we supposed to do, exactly? Kill her and Leah then and there while Tyrael was down? We don't know where she went.
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The Dark Wanderer (Diablo) had spent nights with Adria and essentially had a Rosemary's baby scenario. Being that the host is the daughter of Diablo this be the reason why Big D's personality and physical appearance was dominate as the Prime Evil

Tyrael wasn't a threat anymore and it appeared as if Diablo wasn't trying to kill any Angel specifically or he would have killed Imperius after his shouting match, but he was more concerned with destroying the Crystal Arch and removing Angels entirely.
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05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
Why did they allow the Black Soulstone to fall like that? It was stressed multiple times that it wouldn't be able to contain all of those powerful demon's souls for very long so they should have shattered it like Adria was faking to want to do, right? Wouldn't they all just be able to escape the stone and come back now?

They need space for an expansion pack.

05/25/2012 01:52 AMPosted by Scorch
How the hell are their souls around in Sanctuary for Adria to "mark" so they will be absorbed into the Black Soulstone?

If you remember in the act where you kill Mephisto in, all three of the brothers were in the same room as Mephisto raised them all. Not to mention you kill both Mephisto and Baal were on the plane of Sanctuary when you killed them. But who knows exactly how she marks them.
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The biggest plot hole of all:

Tyrael was around 20 years ago when the heroes destroyed Mephisto and Diablo's soulstones at the hellforge. In fact he was the one who instructed them to do so...

Okay, now that this is clear, Adria somehow marked all 5 souls (Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, Diablo, and Baal). It isn't described how and it's honestly just a mystery right now, but not really a plothole because they never addressed how. HOWEVER, whether or not the souls of Mephisto and Diablo were in the Abyss, WHY would Adria mark them into the black soulstone unless she was evil?

What motive would she have, other then betraying mankind, to put the souls into a soulstone - a plan that was already found to be a failure in Diablo 2?

She tells everyone, including Tyrael, right after the Kulle fight that she's the one who put the Prime Evils souls into the black soulstone. Immediately Tyrael should have thought "WTF why would you do that?", but instead they all just talk about how they now know what Adria was doing for 20 years... What. The. !@#$.

Adria basically makes the whole of Diablo 2 a waste, puts the Prime Evils back into a soulstone, and then plans to smash the soulstone again... Seriously? We already did that!
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This is where the story really falls apart. There simply isn't any reasonable way the primes could have gotten into the Black Soul Stone. Adria had absolutely no access to the Black Soul Stone because it was within Zoltun Kulle's sanctuary. That sanctuary is located in a different dimension hermetically sealed with magic that only Zoltun Kulle could undo. Adria only had access to maybe one of the Soul Stones (Diablo's) and not Mephisto's or Baal's. Thirdly, it takes time to corrupt a soul stone. Otherwise Diablo would have broken out many decades earlier. Finally, Mephisto was trapped in his soul stone only minutes before the hero went rushing through a portal into Hell, a completely separate dimension from Sanctuary. To say that she had access to the soul stones is to say that she was stalking us through several armies worth of hostile demonic monsters that wish to tear mortals limb from limb while simultaneously braving environments that are just as deadly as the monsters, if not moreso. And she did all that without being noticed for months. Unless Adria is also a master ninja (which would be quite humorous) I doubt she could do what the plot of Diablo 3 demands. She is a frail old woman regardless of her powers and nothing like the brash young heroes that are centerpiece to the game.
Edited by Akrem#1768 on 5/25/2012 8:51 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Warrior
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Posts: 2,745
Adria have been leader of the Maghda's cult befor the events of Diablo 1.
She went to Tristram just when she became aware of the awakening of Diablo in Tristram.
Then, after the events of D1, sshe spent nights with Diablo in her tent, planning all of this treacherous betrayal with him.
Adria was Always a Demon's Worshipper. The problem is that we didn't know about this until now.
And even if she wasn't, i'm pretty sure that Diablo could have made her turn against her own kind easily, just the way Mefisto did a while before with Lazarus.

About the stone and the souls: Adria suggests that we go and destroy the stone with all the evils inside it but it was just that she wanted to reunite the 7 and she couldn't do it alone because Leah+Nefalem+Kulle was the ones who could reach to the stone in the first place.

And regarding the events 20 year before about the soulstones, we did destroyed the sousltones not because it would extinguish the evils, but because it would send the evils back to the abyss and the stones would no more serve as a conduit for their powers, since that Izual had told them how to corrupt them. And the souls of the evils weren't INSIDE the sousltones anymore like Diablo's were during the events of Diablo 1.

If we had manage to destroy the soulstones while the evils were inside them, maybe we could have utterly finished with their souls, just like it is suggested we do with the blaksoulstone.
I believe Tyrael agrees with me in this point, since he doesn't tells us that doing exactly what adria wants, we would be accomplishing nothing.
Edited by brunobyof#1425 on 5/25/2012 10:42 AM PDT
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If we had manage to destroy the soulstones while the evils were inside them, maybe we could have utterly finished with their souls, just like it is suggested we do with the blaksoulstone.
I believe Tyrael agrees with me in this point, since he doesn't tells us that doing exactly what adria wants, we would be accomplishing nothing.
The souls of Mephisto and Diablo were definitely still inside the soulstones when they were destroyed in Diablo 2. Book of Cain even mentions it specifically.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
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Posts: 2,745
Didn't read this part of the book yet i think. But, as i remember playing D2 and the Cinematics, we First kill Mefisto, then head to hell, then Kill diablo, then we go to hellforge and destroy the two soulstones.
So, exactly HOW did the hero managed to put the souls of boh mefisto and diablo inside their soulstones after killing them? Did the book of cain has mentioned it too?
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Their souls have been in the soulstones since the Horadrim put them there.

They weren't able to leave the soulstone, they were just able to corrupt people who came into contact with the soulstone. For example Sankekur (Mephisto) and Aiden (Dark Wanderer/Diablo).
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85 Night Elf Warrior
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Posts: 2,745
Wait, so you are saying that The prime Evils we have defeated in Diablo 2 were just illusions, empty vessels with no soul?

Baal was inside the stone but it was broken and then Tal Rasha decided to sacrifice himself as a vessel like the stone to seal Baal down there on the desert. But it was eventually free thanks to Marius.
Diablo was inside the stone in Diablo 1, but the warrior Aidan was corrupted by its powers and inserted it into his own forehead, serving as a conduit to later become a vessel for Diablo himself.

So, what i am saying is that HELL NO, they weren't inside the stone when we destroyed them.
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26 Blood Elf Hunter
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Posts: 771
Does it say that Adria was the one who marked them? Couldn't Kulle have already marked their souls when he created the stone originally?
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I think we're forgetting that the Black Soulstone is different than 'traditional' soulstones. It works completely differently than we understand it. Maybe Adria didn't really need to DO anything for them to be trapped. Maybe Black Soulstone sucked their souls in as they perished on its own and Adria was only watching over the entire process until Diablo gave her further instructions on what was to be done?

I think it makes a lot of sense when you step back to think about it.
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Wait, so you are saying that The prime Evils we have defeated in Diablo 2 were just illusions, empty vessels with no soul?

Baal was inside the stone but it was broken and then Tal Rasha decided to sacrifice himself as a vessel like the stone to seal Baal down there on the desert. But it was eventually free thanks to Marius.
Diablo was inside the stone in Diablo 1, but the warrior Aidan was corrupted by its powers and inserted it into his own forehead, serving as a conduit to later become a vessel for Diablo himself.

So, what i am saying is that HELL NO, they weren't inside the stone when we destroyed them.
The Prime Evils corrupt people through the soulstones, they NEVER leave the soulstones. This is covered in lore extensively.

Mephisto corrupts Sankekur with his soulstone. Diablo corrupts both Albrecht and Aiden with his soulstone (Albrecht had the soulstone in his forehead as well). Baal is sort of the odd man out since Tal Rasha serves as his vessel, but the broken soulstone is sort of used like a key that keeps him bound. They're all still bound to their soulstone, and when it's destroyed they *should* be too. This doesn't necessarily hold to Baal since his case is different from Mephisto and Diablo.
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I think we're forgetting that the Black Soulstone is different than 'traditional' soulstones. It works completely differently than we understand it. Maybe Adria didn't really need to DO anything for them to be trapped. Maybe Black Soulstone sucked their souls in as they perished on its own and Adria was only watching over the entire process until Diablo gave her further instructions on what was to be done?

I think it makes a lot of sense when you step back to think about it.
What doesn't make sense is why Tyrael doesn't expose Adria as a traitor right when he finds out she was the one who bound the prime evils souls to the black soulstone...
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