Diablo® III

Story isn't just bad. It makes NO SENSE.

85 Undead Mage
2120
Yup, they should have explained everything sufficiently in the games, because thats what every Diablo fan plays, not everyone has read or ever will read the books, and they shouldn't have to in order to understand the story OF THE MAIN !@#$ING FRANCHISE.

I think the greatest fault was the lack of stuff that actually happened on camera, if you noticed, TWICE you confront Maghda (sp?) and twice she says "Oh, too bad while you were hunting me I did all this %^-*" like WHAT THE !@#$ BLIZZARD.

Everything interesting happens while you're off fighting, you come back to the keep after defeating Azmodan and a cutscene plays starting with Tyrael yelling

"ADRIA! WHEN DID YOU DECIDE TO BETRAY US?!"

I honestly lol'd my !@# off for a few minutes at how lazy that was of Blizz, my god.
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 1:01 PM PDT
Reply Quote
They clearly state that the black soul stone is working but was being improved upon by Kulle.
Reply Quote
this is just my personal opinion on how i see the story. Diablo does not require a soulstone, nor does any other big demon. Baal and mephisto were killed in d2 but where their spirit lies, would have no clue- I don't think it lies in the black soulstone. Diablo and adria have schemed this plot in the events of d2. Leah I think had diablo residing in her even before obtaining the black soulstone, that was how she had the powers in the first place. so the black soulstone would have only contained azmodan and belials soul,
Diablo 3= belial + azmodan + diablo(leah)
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120
Diablo states that he holds the souls of all seven evil's though... and they state many, many times that he is the PRIME Evil, all of the main Evil's in one body. So everything you've just said is invalidated.
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 2:08 PM PDT
Reply Quote
if all of the main evils were in diablo wouldnt it have been tahamet instead of diablo?
Reply Quote
05/19/2012 02:35 PMPosted by VYNIL
if all of the main evils were in diablo wouldnt it have been tahamet instead of diablo?
Nope. Tathamet is 7 heads + body. Prime Diablo is Diablo plus the other 6 lords, no body.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120
Tathamet was the original Prime Evil who birthed all the seven from his body, Diablo intentionally possessed Leah and the other Six, so that he could still be in control while holding the power of all Seven evils. Tathamet is gone, had Azmodan found the Stone before Diablo's plan could come into effect then we would have seen an Azmodanesque looking version of the Prime Evil.

It was Diablo's plan from the very beginning in Diablo I to eventually have the other evils all lured into his trap, the Black Soulstone, so that he could use them all to become the greatest Demon since Tathamet itself. Watch the Black Soulstone cinematic in Diablo III again, everything Azmodan says is pretty obviously being directed at Diablo, and not Leah "Each of OUR brethren fell into your trap" "I defy you!" etc,

And also taking into account that Diablo possessed Leah, you can see an obvious feminine walk and body shape, just as it was obviously male in both previous incarnations, as he had possessed Aidan and his brother Albrecht before him.

The only way I could see Tathamet returning is through all seven evils willingly combining together. However we all know that won't ever happen because each of them wants to control the other six :P
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:22 PM PDT
Reply Quote
so the 7 evils are diablo, mephisto, baal, azmodan, belial and the other 2 are?
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120
05/19/2012 03:06 PMPosted by Tyrinos
The only way I could see Tathamet returning is through all seven evils willingly combining together. However we all know that won't ever happen because each of them wants to control the other six :P


And Tathamet's body is the Burning Hells itself, his corpse laid the foundation for their realm, with the Seven being birthed from his Seven heads, so supposedly they would have to fuse with Hell in order to resurrect him, and they would lose all their individuality as a result. So like I said, they don't want to be Tathamet, when they could become the equivalent while still having control of themselves and the others.
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:26 PM PDT
Reply Quote
I have to admit I find this whining quite ironic when you consider the train-wreck that is Warcraft lore and storytelling yet Blizzkids nerdgasm all over it O.o

In comparison, Diablo lore is much better - on the topic of how the Evils were sucked into the Black Soulstone, it is clearly stated that they were marked by Adria so it would suck them in. So, when the individual soulstones for Diablo and Mephisto were smashed, instead of banishing/killing them their souls travelled to the Black Soulstone - it essentially saved them.

With Baal, his soul simply went there after he was killed.

It is all explained you just need to pay attention, speak to the main NPCs (as in, talk about all the topics available for chat) and read a few of the tomes.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120
05/19/2012 03:24 PMPosted by VYNIL
so the 7 evils are diablo, mephisto, baal, azmodan, belial and the other 2 are?


Andariel and Duriel, the "twins"
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
The only way I could see Tathamet returning is through all seven evils willingly combining together. However we all know that won't ever happen because each of them wants to control the other six :P


And Tathamet's body is the Burning Hells itself, his corpse laid the foundation for their realm, with the Seven being birthed from his Seven heads, so supposedly they would have to fuse with Hell in order to resurrect him, and they would lose all their individuality as a result. So like I said, they don't want to be Tathamet, when they could become the equivalent while still having control of themselves and the others.


While I don't completely disagree with you, it's not explicitly stated whether the idea of Tathamet's body being the Burning Hells itself is literal or poetic exaggeration/interpretation typical of any religious or creationist lore.

For example, like how many argue that Christianity's God being described in human terms is simply anthromorphism and doesn't mean God looks like a human, or is even a he, but was a way of describing the entity in terms that are relatable etc. The same applies to the story of how Earth was created in 7 days etc. In other words, allegory rather than literal truth.

So it could feasibly be that the Diablo we see walking the Heavens in Act IV IS Tathamet, which is certainly alluded to by his design.
Edited by Aqueous#2403 on 5/19/2012 3:33 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120


And Tathamet's body is the Burning Hells itself, his corpse laid the foundation for their realm, with the Seven being birthed from his Seven heads, so supposedly they would have to fuse with Hell in order to resurrect him, and they would lose all their individuality as a result. So like I said, they don't want to be Tathamet, when they could become the equivalent while still having control of themselves and the others.


While I don't completely disagree with you, it's not explicitly stated whether the idea of Tathamet's body being the Burning Hells itself is literal or poetic exaggeration/interpretation typical of any religious or creationist lore.

In other words, like how many argue that Christianity's God being described in human terms is simply anthromorphism and doesn't mean God looks like a human, or is even a he, but was a way of describing the entity in terms that are relatable etc.

So it could feasibly be that the Diablo we see walking the Heavens in Act IV IS Tathamet, which is certainly alluded to by his design.


Well Tathamet is a seperate entity, the Seven are constantly vying for power over eachother, and after Tathamet and Anu destroyed eachother, both died.

And I honestly don't remember at all where I heard it so either take my word for it or don't, just telling what I know :P but I do remember that Tathamet's body is LITERALLY the Burning Hells. Which makes sense in my opinion as it could be seen as the massive cavernous bowels of his corpse, the walls are made of flesh and bones, blood pools, fire, etc.

It seems to make sense, though it could very well be just a place made by the Seven, designed with themes of blood and gore, understandably... they are demons after all.

But the main reason why I don't agree with your idea that the Diablo seen assualting Heaven was Tathamet is because he is reffered to and refers to himself as Diablo several times before the end. Not once is Tathamet even mentioned, and it was Azmodan's goal to achieve what Diablo did successfully, control over the other six evils, while still retaining his mind.
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
In comparison, Diablo lore is much better - on the topic of how the Evils were sucked into the Black Soulstone, it is clearly stated that they were marked by Adria so it would suck them in. So, when the individual soulstones for Diablo and Mephisto were smashed, instead of banishing/killing them their souls travelled to the Black Soulstone - it essentially saved them.

With Baal, his soul simply went there after he was killed.

It is all explained you just need to pay attention, speak to the main NPCs (as in, talk about all the topics available for chat) and read a few of the tomes.
The explanation just doesn't jive with any lore... That's the problem.

Lore states that when the soulstones are destroyed, the evils go to the abyss. IF that's wrong, and they don't go to the abyss, why the heck would they even try using the black soulstone in the first place? Remember the intent was to trap the evils and then destroy the black soulstone, which apparently would do nothing...

EDIT:

Just to expand on this. Yes nobody knew ahead of time that the 3 primes and twins were in the black soulstone, they just assumed they were in the abyss. HOWEVER, when Kulle saw the evils in the black soulstone, that should have been the eye-opener saying "Oh !@#$, destroying the soulstones 20 years ago didn't help, now what do we do?". Instead we get "Oh okay there's 5 demons in the soulstone, 2 more then HULK SMASH" with no regard to how that didn't seem to work 20 years ago. Did the story explain that somewhere?
Edited by Enkidu#1726 on 5/19/2012 3:46 PM PDT
Reply Quote


While I don't completely disagree with you, it's not explicitly stated whether the idea of Tathamet's body being the Burning Hells itself is literal or poetic exaggeration/interpretation typical of any religious or creationist lore.

In other words, like how many argue that Christianity's God being described in human terms is simply anthromorphism and doesn't mean God looks like a human, or is even a he, but was a way of describing the entity in terms that are relatable etc.

So it could feasibly be that the Diablo we see walking the Heavens in Act IV IS Tathamet, which is certainly alluded to by his design.


Well Tathamet is a seperate entity, the Seven are constantly vying for power over eachother, and after Tathamet and Anu destroyed eachother, both died.

And I honestly don't remember at all where I heard it so either take my word for it or don't, just telling what I know :P but I do remember that Tathamet's body is LITERALLY the Burning Hells. Which makes sense in my opinion as it could be seen as the massive cavernous bowels of his corpse, the walls are made of flesh and bones, blood pools, fire, etc.


No no, you're not wrong, it is in the lore, but it's told through various texts etc. which I'm saying could be putting a poetic spin on the tale like many religion/creationists texts do in stories and in real life. In other words I'm saying it may be a story within a story so to speak.

As to whether Tathamet is a separate entity, that's impossible to say. I would argue that Tathamet's essence is essentially contained within each of those 7 Evils, but since Diablo is the strongest possibly "more" of Tathamet's power or essence or w/e is within him. Now that all 7's souls were merged together into one vessel, that has essentially brought all of the 'pieces' of Tathamet together into one.

But the main reason why I don't agree with your idea that the Diablo seen assualting Heaven was Tathamet is because he is reffered to and refers to himself as Diablo several times before the end. Not once is Tathamet even mentioned, and it was Azmodan's goal to achieve what Diablo did successfully, control over the other six evils, while still retaining his mind.


I understand your viewpoint I just personally think that Tathamet is not necessarily a separate entity in terms of its consciousness or how it refers to itself but it IS the 7 Evils...so in a way what I'm saying is that Diablo/Tathamet are almost the same thing - Diablo is the strongest Evil and so his is the persona it takes.

There's also a connection between Tathamet and Diablo from a naming point of view - Tathamet is described in lore as the 'dark side' of Anu. With Anu being analogous to God, Tathamet can be likened to the Devil, which of course is Diablo in Spanish.
Edited by Aqueous#2403 on 5/19/2012 3:52 PM PDT
Reply Quote
In comparison, Diablo lore is much better - on the topic of how the Evils were sucked into the Black Soulstone, it is clearly stated that they were marked by Adria so it would suck them in. So, when the individual soulstones for Diablo and Mephisto were smashed, instead of banishing/killing them their souls travelled to the Black Soulstone - it essentially saved them.

With Baal, his soul simply went there after he was killed.

It is all explained you just need to pay attention, speak to the main NPCs (as in, talk about all the topics available for chat) and read a few of the tomes.
The explanation just doesn't jive with any lore... That's the problem.

Lore states that when the soulstones are destroyed, the evils go to the abyss. IF that's wrong, and they don't go to the abyss, why the heck would they even try using the black soulstone in the first place? Remember the intent was to trap the evils and then destroy the black soulstone, which apparently would do nothing...


It's because their souls had already been linked to the black soulstone beforehand. So when we smashed their soulstones in Diablo 2, they didn't go to the abyss but went to the black soulstone instead.

Do you follow?

Normally, they would've gone to the abyss, but because Adria betrayed us long before Diablo 2's events it didn't happen. As to why the evils would want to be linked to the black soulstone: well, they didn't, only Diablo did - and he wanted that to happen so that all 7 Evils were cojoined in one vessel.

Now, as to why Diablo is in the driving, no idea...but it could be argued that since he is the strongest it is him who gets control. However, it's also possible it's simply referring to itself as Diablo because that is the persona it took on (the strongest persona) but is in fact something different altogether (Tathamet).
Edited by Aqueous#2403 on 5/19/2012 3:49 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120


Well Tathamet is a seperate entity, the Seven are constantly vying for power over eachother, and after Tathamet and Anu destroyed eachother, both died.

And I honestly don't remember at all where I heard it so either take my word for it or don't, just telling what I know :P but I do remember that Tathamet's body is LITERALLY the Burning Hells. Which makes sense in my opinion as it could be seen as the massive cavernous bowels of his corpse, the walls are made of flesh and bones, blood pools, fire, etc.


No no, you're not wrong, it is in the lore, but it's told through various texts etc. which I'm saying could be putting a poetic spin on the tale like many religion/creationists texts do in stories and in real life. In other words I'm saying it may be a story within a story so to speak.

As to whether Tathamet is a separate entity, that's impossible to say. I would argue that Tathamet's essence is essentially contained within each of those 7 Evils, but since Diablo is the strongest possibly "more" of Tathamet's power or essence or w/e is within him. Now that all 7's souls were merged together into one vessel, that has essentially brought all of the 'pieces' of Tathamet together into one.

But the main reason why I don't agree with your idea that the Diablo seen assualting Heaven was Tathamet is because he is reffered to and refers to himself as Diablo several times before the end. Not once is Tathamet even mentioned, and it was Azmodan's goal to achieve what Diablo did successfully, control over the other six evils, while still retaining his mind.


I understand your viewpoint I just personally think that Tathamet is not necessarily a separate entity in terms of its consciousness or how it refers to itself but it IS the 7 Evils...so in a way what I'm saying is that Diablo/Tathamet are almost the same thing - Diablo is the strongest Evil and so his is the persona it takes.


Because Diablo was the only one of those three who planned to use it this way, and he had an agent (Adria) who used the stone to force his soul into Leah, his daughter, the perfect vessel for HIM. I theorize thats why he was the one to assume control, as Leah already possessed some of his soul and power, he may have had the upper hand in terms of control of the body.

The reason why Azmodan doesn't need a daughter or son to achieve the same effect is because he was still living at the time, and my theory was that he would impale himself with the stone in similar fashion to Aidan's attempt to control Diablo. MAYBE it wouldn't even work then, maybe because Diablo is known as the most powerful of the evils, he would automatically take control of Azmodan's body, I have no idea, just a theory, I think a valid one.

Good to have a conversation with someone who also understands the Lore pretty well :)
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
[quote]
Just to expand on this. Yes nobody knew ahead of time that the 3 primes and twins were in the black soulstone, they just assumed they were in the abyss. HOWEVER, when Kulle saw the evils in the black soulstone, that should have been the eye-opener saying "Oh !@#$, destroying the soulstones 20 years ago didn't help, now what do we do?". Instead we get "Oh okay there's 5 demons in the soulstone, 2 more then HULK SMASH" with no regard to how that didn't seem to work 20 years ago. Did the story explain that somewhere?


It would have worked unless their souls had been linked to yet another soulstone, but since the black soulstone was the only stone capable of holding multiple souls it wouldn't be likely.

It really was that close - if we'd been able to smash that stone it would've been game-over.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Mage
2120


Now, as to why Diablo is in the driving, no idea...but it could be argued that since he is the strongest it is him who gets control. However, it's also possible it's simply referring to itself as Diablo because that is the persona it took on (the strongest persona) but is in fact something different altogether (Tathamet).


As I said in response to the other guy, my theory is that because Leah possessed some portion of Diablo's soul and power already, she was the perfect vessel for HIM, and not for any of the other evils.
Edited by SheepDogWoof#1146 on 5/19/2012 3:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote


No no, you're not wrong, it is in the lore, but it's told through various texts etc. which I'm saying could be putting a poetic spin on the tale like many religion/creationists texts do in stories and in real life. In other words I'm saying it may be a story within a story so to speak.

As to whether Tathamet is a separate entity, that's impossible to say. I would argue that Tathamet's essence is essentially contained within each of those 7 Evils, but since Diablo is the strongest possibly "more" of Tathamet's power or essence or w/e is within him. Now that all 7's souls were merged together into one vessel, that has essentially brought all of the 'pieces' of Tathamet together into one.



I understand your viewpoint I just personally think that Tathamet is not necessarily a separate entity in terms of its consciousness or how it refers to itself but it IS the 7 Evils...so in a way what I'm saying is that Diablo/Tathamet are almost the same thing - Diablo is the strongest Evil and so his is the persona it takes.


Because Diablo was the only one of those three who planned to use it this way, and he had an agent (Adria) who used the stone to force his soul into Leah, his daughter, the perfect vessel for HIM. I theorize thats why he was the one to assume control, as Leah already possessed some of his soul and power, he may have had the upper hand in terms of control of the body.

The reason why Azmodan doesn't need a daughter or son to achieve the same effect is because he was still living at the time, and my theory was that he would impale himself with the stone in similar fashion to Aidan's attempt to control Diablo. MAYBE it wouldn't even work then, maybe because Diablo is known as the most powerful of the evils, he would automatically take control of Azmodan's body, I have no idea, just a theory, I think a valid one.

Good to have a conversation with someone who also understands the Lore pretty well :)


Aye indeed :) - I find the Diablo lore significantly more interesting than Warcraft's, hence the invested interest!

But I'm not sure, I see merits in both sides of the argument perhaps think that the Diablo we face in Diablo 3 is perhaps somewhere between Diablo and Tathamet. In essence, it should be Tathamet, and the physical design of Diablo is definitely a tip of the hat by Blizz to it being Tathamet; however, on the opposing side, like you said the character does refer to itself as Diablo. Having said THAT, it could be this was done because those who simply played the games and nothing else would've been like "Who the hell is Tathamet? Should I be scared?"

Could go either way I think ^^.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]