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People seem to have an issue with Adria's ability to mark the souls of the overlords while not being anywhere near them. In Dragon Age, there was something called "blood magic". BM included many abilities, ranging from summoning demons to mind control to offensive spells, but one of the more advanced abilities that blood mages could have (according to the lore) was something called "dream walking". To do this, an skilled blood mage would use blood from sacrificial victims to enter the Fade awake, and to enter the dreams of others while they sleep. If we're both dreaming, then my dream takes place on one temporary island of the Fade, and yours takes place on a separate island, so if I'm the blood mage, I could enter my island awake and then invade yours. From there, they could not only exert extremely powerful mind control, but they could also communicate with (and manipulate) others from great distances. The Fade is considered to be the realm of dreams that lies beyond the Veil, which is the boundary between the mortal universe and the spirit universes. While you sleep and your brain dreams, your soul is in the Fade. When you die, you pass through the Fade one last time on your way to a more permanent spirit universe. Now, back to D3. I'm assuming that Adria is a blood mage of sorts, and that she did something similar to the dream walking in Dragon Age lore, and once she projected herself beyond into the Fade, she moved beyond into the Black Abyss where the souls of the defeated overlords were sleeping (awaiting their rebirth). From there, she marked them in such a way that they would be drawn into the black soul stone once she located it. If this theory is true, then she is clearly one of the most powerful blood mages in existence. In Dragon Age, it is believed that the Darkspawn were created when ancient blood mages entered the Fade and went beyond into the Golden City (the seat of the Maker) and attempted to usurp it's power to essentially set themselves up as gods. Their plan failed, and they were cast out. The Golden City was blackened, and the magisters returned as the first Darkspawn. So, Adria must have been even more powerful than them.
what the Fuhhhh..... L...O.....L
Actually, she told the player character that for the last 20 years she was traveling through the places where the prime evils were killed, and magically prepared their souls (which were still hanging around the places of their death) to be placed into the black soulstone.
So she actually WAS near them. Just not at the moment of their death.
Unfortunately this still doesn't explain why their souls were hanging there for 20 years and how Adria marked them. Maybe that's what souls do. And I guess she used magic.
You don't think that she might have been lying, do you? That would have been dishonest, and Adria was such a sweet old lady. She'd never lie or anything. ;)
Lore-wise, their souls would have gone to the Black Abyss, so logically, she must have been able to spiritually reach them there.
Okay, here is one thing that bothers me the most.
Why no one questioned Adria's words regarding black soulstone?
Every single thing she says doesn't sound credible. Just look:
1) She claims that that trapping souls in the Black Soulstone (BS) was her doing (she does say that in the game).
Is that even possible for an ordinary magic user, even in 20 years?Being acquainted with the last of the Horadrim (Cain) some time ago doesn't help much.
Well, the Horadrim managed to imprison the Prime Evils, but:
- They had the stones with them, not somewhere out of reach and in unfinished state.
- They had to chase and confront physical incarnations of the Evils, not just mark some faints of the seesnce of the souls, departed to the Black Abyss.
- They were many, Adria is a loner.
2) She also said (in the dialogue) that she had to visit all places where the Great Evils died, in order to mark them.
Diablo died in the Burning Hells. Do they sell tickets there nowdays?
Some people explain that she was instructed and empowered by Diablo himself. Or maybe that was all a lie and trapping the souls was all Diablo's doing, while Adria only took credits for it.
But these theories dont explain why she still sounds credible while pretending to be on the good side.
3) She says that by smashing the black soulstone she will be able to defeat Great Evils forever (she does say that in the dialogue).
Does she really knows a way of throwing them into the Void forever, or does she just think everyone expects Great Evils to be destroyed forever just by smashing the soulstone? (because we know from the lore it didn't work with the 3 original soulstones)
She cannot assume no one knows truth about soulstones. Cain knew it, did he not tell anyone for 20 years? Tyrael knew it, he made them. Well, he had an amnesia and maybe he forgot the details, but can Adria count on that?
- Maybe the Black soulstone was different? And shattering it was enough? Nothing is explained in the game. BS is described as a man-made replica of the original soulstones. The only difference they let us know - it is capable of holding more than one soul. They had to mention that, because otherwise it would be illogical to put all souls into it, right? So why they didnt explain that it was also capable of banishing Evils forever? It's important.
- Maybe Adria knows a special way of destroying BS? (She mentions later, that some rituals are required before destruction, although that was just an excuse to buy time).
No one knows of such a way. Because if they knew, they'd do that 20 years ago.
So the whole thing about defeating Great Evils with this soulstone doesnt sound credible. Maybe Adria is hiding something from us? Just a little? You know, what else can a soulstone with a soul of Great Evil be good for? Any precedents? Like, resurrecting said Evil?
But no, not a single person, including the player character, ever questioned her. Seriously, what were they thinking? "She doesn't laugh and doesn't boast, we can totally trust her"?
Magaiti, in response to your points:
1. They were already dead, so she didn't need to fight them. All she need to do was to spiritually reach into the black abyss (probably using blood magic) and mark them in a way that would forcibly re-direct them into the black soulstone once it was found.
2. I think that you answered this question in the last sentence. She sounded credible and pretended to be good.
3. She lied. She had no intention of smashing it. It's not known whether or not smashing the black soulstone would permanently eliminate them or not. It might just send them back to the Black Abyss, just like it would with smashing a regular soulstone.
Essentially, everything that Adria said about the black soulstone may or may not be the truth. Nothing that she said can be trusted.
1. They were already dead, so she didn't need to fight them.
Okay, this makes sense. Still, she had to travel to Hells to visit place of last Diablo's death. Well, maybe Tristram was good enough too, as the place of this previous death, but that sounds as a bit too much of a stretch.
2. She sounded credible and pretended to be good.
She never sounded credible.
Look, no one knows anything about her. The only one person who knew her was Cain, but he is dead.
She comes out of nowhere and suggests using a dangerous artifact.
It was she, not Kulle who should have been asked "How can we trust you"?
3. She lied. She had no intention of smashing it.
It does not matter if the stone actually works the way she says.
What does matter is that she tells us the stone "can be used to defeat the Evils forever".
How does she know? How is it even possible to defeat them forever?
It is not an easy feat. Yet everyone just assumes that she knows what she is doing.
And that she can be trusted.
Essentially, everything that Adria said about the black soulstone may or may not be the truth. Nothing that she said can be trusted.
Exactly! Nothing she sad can be trusted. Yet everyone just trusts her. Just because she pretends to be good.
Okay, I get it. Everyone trusts her just because she pretends to be good. That says a lot about the quality of the story.
1. I personally doubt that she physically went to Hell - although as Diablo's servant, she might have been able to walk right in without a problem. I hypothesize that she used blood magic to spiritually enter the Black Abyss to mark the souls of the dead overlords.
2. She was always questionable, but the fact that she was Leah's mother gave her an "in" with the party.
3. She only needed the party to believe that it could defeat the prime evils forever. This grandiose, utopian goal made everyone hopeful. We really have no idea as to whether or not the black soulstone really does have the ability to defeat them forever. All we have is her promise, and after her betrayal, none of her promises have any value at all.
4. She played the role of a loving mother that heartbreakingly had to stay out of Leah's life for her own protection. Furthermore, Adria capitalized on her long standing relationship with Cain, and the desire to continue his legacy. She also made a grandiose promise that offered a permanent solution to a huge problem that their world had faced for centuries (and for Tyrael, thousands of years). Adria would have made a great politician. ;)
Just to throw my theory in, Diablo had every intention of entering the soulstone to get the power of his brothers and the lesser evils. Maybe he tricked the two temporarily dead lessers and his brothers just to go into the soulstone under some pretense, and it's possible that their souls can move.
I repeat it once again - your theories only expalin how the souls ended up in the stone.
What I ask, why party believed her? How Adria's explanation can both be plausible and not expose her as an evil-doer at the same time?
It doesn't matter if her explanations, intentions and promises are true.
What matters is, why party believed in all of the following, without question:
- that she won't betray us.
- that she can defeat the Great Evils forever.
- that she needs a soulstone for that.
Can you come up with a satisfactory explanation, besides "because they are all dimwits" or "because writers just didn't care"?
My personal favorite is "Story was convincing enough for a 10-years old, so they didn't bother to try any harder".
Adria couldn't and didn't mention that Diablo helped her in any way. Because that would give away her allegance to him.
So how the party is supposed to believe she imprisoned the souls and she is on our side at the same time?
Versions involving Diablo's help won't answer that.
And on to Blood Magic. Man, seriously. This is a thing from a whole different work of fiction. From different universe. It has never been mentioned in Diablo lore before. Are you a kind of person who can't tell Handalf from Dumbledore, or do you seriously believe everything people tell you?
You see, I can reach you by using Blood Magic and do bad things to you in this very world. Because I know your nickname. By your own logic, it is more likely that Blood Magic exists that that I just lie to you.
Heck, even you say that you "hypothesise". That implies you have to resort to speculation to believe in truth of her words. Why not just ask her if you have doubt?
Because we are good and care about her feelings? Never mind the danger of releasing the Prime Evil upon the world?
Yes, she only needed the party to believe that it could defeat the prime evils forever.
But making people believe, is it really this simple? People don't come up with ways to defeat evils forever every day.
She may sound confident, but is she really that genius and competent? Why Tyrael didn't check the details of her plan? Just in case it may involve sticking a soulstone full of souls into one's forehead?
She won't ever do that, because she's good, right? That's circular logic.
- We assume she is good, hence we can trust her.
- We trust her, hence she won't lie to us.
- She promised to help us, hence she is good.
No one ever assumed that she might not be good, that she could lie to us or that she won't live to her promises.
They live in the world full of treachery and corruption. Suspicion must be a basic instinct of survival!
A grandiose solution that would end the threat forever? It could just as easily end the WORLD forever, if you remember anything about soulstones.
Could she really capitalize on her relationship with Cain?
Cain didn't trust her. It's obvious if you read Cain's gossips on Adria from Diablo I.
Heck, what MUST she have done for party to believe she is not to be trusted?
Throw fireballs at people? Laugh maniacally? Openly state her plans on resurrecting Diablo? Eat kittens?
Okay, I tried to rethink why I was so insulted by Adria's betrayal. Maybe it's not because she was that hard to believe, but rather because we had reasons to challenge her intentions, but the game never gives us an opportunity. It just feels insulting, it makes me hate the game. We are THE nephalem, not some errand boy who doesn't even have a right to have an opinion.
Look, remember Nilathak's betrayal from Diablo II? We could hate him, we could say "what were they thinking?", but we would never blame ourselves. Because we had no chance to prevent his betrayal. We were told about it when the damage was already done. And we did what an action hero is best at - right the wrong, rescue the victim, avenge the dead.
Now Adria. She joins our team! We take responsibility for her actions. We trust a dangerous artifact to her care. And we have a lot of time (2 acts) to think about her intentions.
magaiti, both Leah and Kormac had their suspicions about Adria. When you met her, she was being tortured by demons with her loving daughter running up to help mommy. When you got her back to camp, she talked about continuing Cain's work ... "Cain's work ... your work ... is my war". Her deception is believable storywise.
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