Diablo® III

Blizzard Admits the AH affects Drop Rates


05/29/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
i have ZERO chance to find a legendary, because the server has now adjusted the rates on the fly, because others have already found it.

That's not what was said or implied at all, sorry if it was confusing. The AH doesn't have any affect on the literal drop rates of items depending on what's available.

What I said, and what is true, is that with far more players and an increased proliferation of item trade, we have to factor in how many items are being found by players and how quickly a player can gear up by 'sourcing' items from others through trade and the convenience of the gold auction house.

If we say "a player should have X power in Y amount of time through drops" and completely ignore that the time factor can be reduced by simply having access to more drops through trading and the auction house, players would be gearing up far quicker than we've determined they should. It has nothing to do with the auction house per se, but the general ease at which players have access to more items than they would without it and us needing to keep that in mind while balancing drops. It would be rather poorly thought out if we balanced drops completely ignoring all of the ways players can gear up, and trading is certainly one of them.

Obviously everyone wants the best gear possible as quickly as possible, and us attempting to mediate that through design that takes all factors into account is not always going to be a popular notion.


Here's the problem with that, and it is also present here.

In Diablo II, It took extremely rare items to get extremely rare items. That meant an extremely (and for me, despite being a hardcore gamer, insurmountable) barrier of entry to the market.

I don't like the notion of needing a Magic Find character to equip your "real" characters, either. That isn't why I failed to even start trading in D2, though -- I did it anyway, and had 400+ Magic Find. I just didn't like it or find it fun.

Thanks for reading.
The issue is the implication that they reward farmers and skew the percentages to make it even harder on the casual player to get the "great gear". I won't ever be "uber", but the fact that because of folks who play 24/7, *I* get screwed.

That, I'm afraid, is just plain AWFUL game design. Period.

It isn't "harder", it just takes more time. Since you're a casual player, it should take more time. However, you could also argue that it would probably take similar amounts of hours to find the "uber" gear on average, but casual players extend those hours across a longer timeframe. Simply being casual doesn't somehow decrease your odds of getting a well-rolled item.

What's the problem, again? Are you entitled to the same rewards as someone else who spends more time with an activity? Do you also think it's lame when someone spends all their time training for a black belt and earns it a year or two before you? Are you entitled to rewards just for being you?

In fact, being casual might help if the market settles down. You may not be able to make a few really large sells (you probably will, anyway), but then again you probably won't have to when the market is flooded with more and more really high-end items. You don't need a 1.3k DPS weap to tackle A1I anyway.

This is a hobby game. You enjoy doing what you do in Diablo 3 because you enjoy doing it. So what if it takes a while? It's fun. If it isn't fun for you, don't play. If you can't stop thinking about the fact that Johnny Collegegoer has all the time in the world to get better gear than you, perhaps this isn't the game for you.
90 Orc Death Knight
Posts: 744
Bashiok, you guys failed. The AH is the ONLY source of gear right now.

Me and my girlfriend have been playing a couple of characters, got our Barb and Witch Doctor to Act 2 Nightmare, at level 38.

After that we switched to Wizard and Monk, in Act 2 hell, level 55.

EVERY single time we get to a new act, it's not "Cool we're gonna get way better drops now"

It's "Well, time to spend all of our money on the AH because we need to survive."
Edited by Boreall#1611 on 5/29/2012 2:06 PM PDT
If the AH removes the drive you had to play the game, just stay away from the AH? If anything having the AH there and not using it will provide more of a challenge due to decreased (useful) drop rates.

Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. I could see if they had ladders in D3, and they allowed AH purchases on ladder characters, you might feel compelled. But if you're playing the game purely for your own enjoyment, what does it matter if the AH is there? Just stay away from it.

I could do exactly that, but what would be the point? I *can* obtain better items merely by farming gold, so artificially limiting myself by not doing so is outside the framework of the game, so I probably won't. That's why it's a bad DESIGN decision, because you shouldn't expect your players to act against their own best interests when progressing thru the content.

You've put it politely, but this kind of argument really annoys me because it is a framing error - you don't solve structural problems with a game by changing your own behaviour, all you are doing is mitigating the effect those problems have on your own game play, not resolving them for the entire player base. There is a difference between properly playing the game being a fix for certain issues, and deliberately gimping yourself as a "fix" for others - the latter is not a realistic expectation of what the vast majority of people playing a game are going to do.
QFTW, I dont even have alot of cash, didnt know they handled drops this way. So Im not going to bother log On until AH is up.
Just let blizzard win guys
While you mediate the drop rates of gear are you taking into account that crafting is over priced and a waste of time? did this patch increase the drops rates due to this factor? i doubt it....

That's why it's a bad DESIGN decision, because you shouldn't expect your players to act against their own best interests when progressing thru the content.

That's a good way of putting it. Good point.
Posts: 388
The RMAH was a business decision, not a gaming decision, plain and simple. Obviously they're a company and need to make money, but it shouldn't have a negative impact on the way a game plays, which this clearly does.
my solution from another thread:

Right now we have: option #1--"normal" and option #2--hardcore.

I respectfully request that Blizzard add a 3rd option: when I create a character, I want to be able to opt out of using the AH/RMAH altogether. A dialogue box would open, warning me that the auction house icon will be eternally "greyed out" (similar to the warning when you create a hardcore character).

A character created under this new option would have a stash that is not shared with my normal and/or hardcore characters that do have access to their respective AHs. It would also only be able to join games (and trade) with other characters that go this route.

Before I go further, please read this blue post by Bashiok:

The auction house obviously provides an incredible service to allow for very easy trades between characters, and essentially blows out the wide range of items you could have available to you at any one time. So, in fact, the AH has to be a factor in how we drop items. On one hand you have a huge benefit because you can buy and sell items very easily, as opposed to having to post up WTS threads in the old USEast trading forums, but on the other end it does impact the item pool economy with the inherent ease at which you can trade items. If the AH existed but wasn't a factor at all into how items dropped/rolled, the economy would be completely tanked within a matter of weeks.

Let's be clear: even if you choose to not use the AH when playing, the AH does affect your game play because, as Bashiok stated, Blizzard adjusts the drop/roll rates of your items to compensate as if you had in fact used it.

In contrast, for people that choose to forego AH/RMAH access, Blizzard could safely adjust item drop/roll rates in favor the of the player, knowing that they would be relying almost entirely on those drops for upgrades (the other sources being the trade channel or friends list). I believe many players want to find their own items (myself included), and not have their item hunt affected by an AH they don't want to use. We don't want to be gold farmers--we want to be item hunters.

What about 3rd party sites selling to those who choose to not have AH access, you ask? I contend this wouldn't be an issue, because if you really wanted to buy your way to good gear (with virtual gold or real life $$), you wouldn't have chosen to forego AH access in the first place. Regardless, 3rd party websites will flourish whether you use the AH or not, undercutting prices as they see fit.

Well, more could be said (e.g., crafting costs, economy ruined by "exploiters" who cheesed game mechanics to farm endgame gear), but I don't want to turn this into a tl:dr discussion.

Respectfully submitted,

This post explains exactly what I had hoped from this game. I think that the AH is a great tool for those players that wish to use it, but I'd rather avoid it, particularly if it meant balancing out the droprates for rares and up - and on Act bosses.

I understand that they want to remove the boss grind, but I happen to like getting good items off of big demons. If they are too easy, make them more difficult. Hell, add on some of the modifiers from the champion and elite monsters. I don't want anything handed to me, but I would think Azmodan is carrying around better stuff than random goatman #133453.
Posts: 388
Btw, I'm still convinced that the OP is actually right. For example, I farmed inferno Iskatu for blue weapons (900-1100+ dps) and up until roughly last Friday I was able to get them quite often.

After Friday the boss literally stopped dropping anything whatsoever even close to that value. Conveniently, around the exact same time, the AH became flooded with items just like the ones I was farming. It's like once the AH was overloaded with these weapons, they magically stopped dropping.

Bashiok's long post is full of fluff to make it sound better than it actually is.

I think Bashiok dropped the bomb and is taking heat from ppl higher up in the food chain right about now.

I'm not sure about the adjusted drop rates based on AH listings, but the part about Bashiok's post is spot on.

All the people thanking Bashiok for that post don't seem to understand damage control.
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