Diablo® III

COMMON ITEMS HAVE NO VALUE & SERVE NO PURPOSE

Posts: 63

Do people just hate change? Do they just hate people who care about game design? I didn't realize just how many people would bother to post on this thread just to hate on me because I thought this was an issue worth mentioning - that 80% of the items that drop in this game actually lose you gold if you purposely or accidentally pick them up.

Don't worry man, you are correct. This is not a difference in opinion, as some people have indicated. It IS actively worse to pick up common items than to avoid them, and it IS bad game design. There are entire textbooks written on the subject (see Fundamentals of Game Design, by Ernest Adams - which specifically mentions Diablo throughout). Just because a game has design flaws doesn't mean it isn't a good game though. Every game has flaws.

What you might be able to argue (though I would disagree) is that it is more "fun" than not to include this particular design flaw, and that's what Blizzard may have found to be the case for the majority of players during testing.

I love your post. It's great to hear from someone who has actually read a bit of literature on the subject.

I have begun to wonder though if adjusting the gold values is actually the best change, because as accounts age and presumably the amount of gold everyone has on hand continues to rise, would white/grey items again become irrelevant even if there value was increased to it's logical maximum?

For instance, after I max or near-max level three or four of the classes I imagine I would have so much gold on hand that blues may not even be worth picking up anymore. Although, in that case they would only be not worth picking up because of the gold I have, and not because of their value relative to monsters dropping gold, so I suppose they aren't truly comparable situations.

In Diablo 2, for example, we all knew after getting a character into Nightmare or Hell that picking up commons or blues was no longer worth it because of gold devaluation and the lack of gold sinks, but I never felt as though the amount of gold they sold for was too low, it was simply that I had no use for that gold regardless of how much I received.
Edited by Irreverent1#1481 on 5/21/2012 2:10 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 36
...because when you start out at level 1 you have nothing.
Reply Quote
Posts: 63
05/21/2012 04:09 PMPosted by Gus
...because when you start out at level 1 you have nothing.

Great insight. Problem Solved. /thread
Reply Quote
05/16/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Obsolescence


I had a different experience. Blues and up were always much more valuable. Get some MF and keep moving.
I think you are missing the point. I'm not saying that greys were valuable in Diablo 2, just that they were valuable enough to be worth the physical process of dragging to item to a merchant.

In Diablo 3, you only get 2-10 gold per grey in Act 4 Normal. In Diablo 2, those items would have been worth 50-750 gold per grey. What reason was there to obliterate the value of the most common drop rendering it not even worth the effort to sell.


No no no. There were a few white items in D2 worth dragging back to town. Mostly upper tier white armors. The majority weren't even worth dragging back though. Also please consider that in D3, you can carry probably close to 30 sets of armor in your bag as opposed to 5 in d2. Imagine how much gold you would be carrying in your bag if absolutely everything was worth picking up.

Blizzard specifically said they wanted the game to have a loot pinata feel to it, but in order to make it that fun, they had to make some stuff useless, or it would be a majorly over powered game mechanic.
Reply Quote
58 Blood Elf Death Knight
550
Posts: 477
The OPs idea to decrease gold drops for monsters who drop whites is perfect. Make common items vendor for 20-30 gold each, and then drop 20-30 less gold than normal. Solve the entire problem at once. There are far more creative ways than this, like using them as mats for crafting, or turning them into side objectives or something, but this change is a flip of a switch, and needs to be done very badly.
This change would mean you return to town every five minutes to get rid of your white/grey items. Or that you ignore them and are 20-30% behind the expected gold for your level.
05/21/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Obsolescence
Do people just hate change?
Apparently. You hate how Blizzard changed the way loot drops from the typical standard set by other RPGs, and those opposed to your idea hate having the game changed just to make the loot drops more standard. Or possibly neither argument has to do with change at all.
Reply Quote
Posts: 138
Whites are better than legionaries though
http://i49.tinypic.com/rr7920.jpg
(and no, that's not me)

I view it as a contest of skill, you win if you can click everything fast without clicking on the useless whites, lose otherwise. It's a fun game.
Reply Quote
been saying this since day 1.
Edited by Ak47#1369 on 5/22/2012 4:10 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Shaman
6320
Posts: 15
05/16/2012 08:14 PMPosted by RedRain
if you picked up non magic items in diablo 2, you were doing something wrong


Thats not entirely true. There were exceptional items such as staff or wands that had stats that would sell really well.
Reply Quote
Posts: 63
No no no. There were a few white items in D2 worth dragging back to town. Mostly upper tier white armors. The majority weren't even worth dragging back though. Also please consider that in D3, you can carry probably close to 30 sets of armor in your bag as opposed to 5 in d2. Imagine how much gold you would be carrying in your bag if absolutely everything was worth picking up.

Blizzard specifically said they wanted the game to have a loot pinata feel to it, but in order to make it that fun, they had to make some stuff useless, or it would be a majorly over powered game mechanic.

You've helped changed about the sell value. I agree now that changing the sell value is at least not the best option, but what do ou think then about the other 4 methods to solve this issue such as allowing socketing/enchanting or toggling whether you see commons? Or allowing you to break them down in your
Reply Quote
I'm not reading 6 pages of this so don't know if it was mentioned but... Did anyone play Titan Quest? In TQ, theese solutions were implemented and they were in fact, VERY useful. I'm talking about...

1) Diferent colors: Health potions had RED names. Mana potions had BLUE names. Runes (think gems) had ORANGE names. And that's it, those colors were not used for anything else. It was extremely easy to tell one thing from another when seeing the loot.

2) The "don't show me the crap" button. You know how ALT shows you the loot? In TQ, there were 3 configurable buttons for that. "Show me everything", "Don't show grey" and "Don't show white". And yes they were a HUGE help in looting.

It really made the game a los more streamlined, the junk was there, you saw it drop, but you never missclicked it.

So with that working example, I'd say that should be a good start.
Reply Quote
Posts: 63
I'm not reading 6 pages of this so don't know if it was mentioned but... Did anyone play Titan Quest? In TQ, theese solutions were implemented and they were in fact, VERY useful. I'm talking about...

1) Diferent colors: Health potions had RED names. Mana potions had BLUE names. Runes (think gems) had ORANGE names. And that's it, those colors were not used for anything else. It was extremely easy to tell one thing from another when seeing the loot.

2) The "don't show me the crap" button. You know how ALT shows you the loot? In TQ, there were 3 configurable buttons for that. "Show me everything", "Don't show grey" and "Don't show white". And yes they were a HUGE help in looting.

It really made the game a los more streamlined, the junk was there, you saw it drop, but you never missclicked it.

So with that working example, I'd say that should be a good start.

I have played Titan Quest but I completely forgot that they had that. That is a great way to implement it and I hope they do.
Reply Quote
Posts: 22
Make them sell for 50-100 to vendors.
Reply Quote
I'm not reading 6 pages of this so don't know if it was mentioned but... Did anyone play Titan Quest? In TQ, theese solutions were implemented and they were in fact, VERY useful. I'm talking about...

1) Diferent colors: Health potions had RED names. Mana potions had BLUE names. Runes (think gems) had ORANGE names. And that's it, those colors were not used for anything else. It was extremely easy to tell one thing from another when seeing the loot.

2) The "don't show me the crap" button. You know how ALT shows you the loot? In TQ, there were 3 configurable buttons for that. "Show me everything", "Don't show grey" and "Don't show white". And yes they were a HUGE help in looting.

It really made the game a los more streamlined, the junk was there, you saw it drop, but you never missclicked it.

So with that working example, I'd say that should be a good start.


I completely agree. This was the first thing I noticed an mentioned to my friends. Why don't they have an option for me to not pick up the trash loot?

Every time my friends and I play we get to a point where you suddenly see a graveyard of whites as everyone clears out their inventory so that we can continue onward to pick up more magic. It's an annoying time sink.

The whites are fine being in the game and server a purpose, but let us avoid clicking them at least if we want.

On top of that though they need to make gems, plans, pages and potions not hidden, or simply add some sort of color to their names. Even if they don't give us an option to not click whites they need to give gems, plans, pages and potions a color. It's easy to overlook them when there's a massive wall of white items.
Reply Quote
Posts: 4
That's right, every time you have to walk from a point to another actually loses you some gold. Does that make sense to you as a player? Should we be forced to walk? Blizzard should remove walking. We all should have, for every class, a free teleport so we can stop losing time, therefore losing gold.

Moreover,
- Killing is a waste of time. We should be able to 1-hit everything.
- Casting time on town portal is damn too long.
- Why do we must click to pick up a rare/unique.

...must I go on...

/sarcasm off
Reply Quote
I'm not reading 6 pages of this so don't know if it was mentioned but... Did anyone play Titan Quest? In TQ, theese solutions were implemented and they were in fact, VERY useful. I'm talking about...

1) Diferent colors: Health potions had RED names. Mana potions had BLUE names. Runes (think gems) had ORANGE names. And that's it, those colors were not used for anything else. It was extremely easy to tell one thing from another when seeing the loot.

2) The "don't show me the crap" button. You know how ALT shows you the loot? In TQ, there were 3 configurable buttons for that. "Show me everything", "Don't show grey" and "Don't show white". And yes they were a HUGE help in looting.

It really made the game a los more streamlined, the junk was there, you saw it drop, but you never missclicked it.

So with that working example, I'd say that should be a good start.


This is a great point. I have also played Titan Quest and I really liked all those features, SPECIALLY the different colors used for potions, both Health and Mana, as well as gems. The feature to not show grey/white was without a doubt a time saver so that I could pick up only what I was interested in. Even if Blizzard were to decide not to implement the 'do not show worthless items' feature, I would REALLY like to see the health potions names show up in red because when there's a lot of loot, it can actually be difficult to spot the potion among all the useless items on the floor.

Having different color for the text of potions definitely has my vote.
Allowing us to select whether we want to see grey/white items, also gets my vote.
Reply Quote
Just to voice my opinion.

Common items are great in that they magnify the joy of finding magic and rare items. The loot spam is something of a tradition (I think) in Diablo series and that really should stay.
Reply Quote
As a bit of a compulsive perfectionist and completionist, it bothers me that the game is literally punishing me for wanting to pick up everything. If I want to clean up a level, I'm going to send my gold per hour down the tubes big time.
Reply Quote
Posts: 63
Just to voice my opinion.

Common items are great in that they magnify the joy of finding magic and rare items. The loot spam is something of a tradition (I think) in Diablo series and that really should stay.


I don't think anyone is honestly suggesting that they remove white/grey items entirely. We just want to do take some actions so that we either can toggle clicking on them or give them some other value or function.
Reply Quote
The solution is simple:
Add an option to forge items with a base item. That would allow us to try to get better items through the forge (using an "exceptional" white item for example), would give white items purpose and would boost the forge a bit.
While still not being overpowered, i think this solution would work well. I don't care about the sell price, i think those are fine.
Reply Quote
A less retarded solution would be to increase the vendor value of common items.

Even better than that, you could go grab your pacifier out of the diaper bag.

...Burn!
Edited by SteveAkaGod#1552 on 6/4/2012 1:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]