Diablo® III

Why do we kill Zoltun Kulle?

His ultimate goal is power, not aiding the human race. he's delusional and on a power trip, which makes him dangerous. He's trying to upset the balance of 'nature' or in this case, good and evil. Think of Mugabe. He was great for a small amount of time for Zimbabwe, but the power and corruption turned him into well, a paranoid monster. The same could go for Kulle perhaps.
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Oh I don't know, maybe it's because he created the black soulstone?
Which led to all this.....series of unfortunate events.


Yes, Zolton Kulle should be held responsible for this, for the same reason that if someone stabs another person, we should hold whoever designed and manufactured the knife accountable by killing them brutally. And we should do it before the stabbing in question because we're psychic. And we definitely shouldn't be committed to a mental hospital. :P

05/20/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Mijuu
But he wasnt going to give us the stone as I recall....


He never says anything to that effect. The last thing he says on the matter before dying is something like "the bargain stands."

05/20/2012 01:24 AMPosted by Zanyuki
He essentially betrayed us. No matter what manner of views you may possess, if you try to kill someone expect that someone to fight back. I don't think there's no need to actually rationalize why we killed Zoltun Kulle aside from the fact that he wanted to kill us but failed.


There's just no evidence of this. I can see rationalizing it this way because it would make a ton more sense and be less morally disturbing if it went down the way you say, but it didn't. He said something like join me and rule the world, and we said, depending on the class, something along the lines of "you're crazy and give me the stone and before you answer please die now kthx." While it's a bit unclear and tough to swallow what the deal was because the writing is sloppy and disturbing, we should suppress the urge to fill in details in our mind.

05/19/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Mijuu
Didnt HE try to kill us?


No, we murder him for basically no reason. It confused me too because I considered my character a hero or at least a decent woman, so I assumed there would be something more to it. This caused some cognitive dissonance that made me think I must have missed something. To me the lesson is that preconceived notions can warp my perception.

06/06/2012 10:51 AMPosted by MattsC
His ultimate goal is power, not aiding the human race. he's delusional and on a power trip, which makes him dangerous. He's trying to upset the balance of 'nature' or in this case, good and evil. Think of Mugabe. He was great for a small amount of time for Zimbabwe, but the power and corruption turned him into well, a paranoid monster. The same could go for Kulle perhaps.


Power-seeking isn't inherently evil, just a serious red flag. Clearly you understand this because you say "perhaps." The notion that someone seems bad, MIGHT be bad or might go bad is definitely not a justification for killing someone. This is why, in civilized society, we do not accept "he was kind of a %*%!" as a defense in a murder trial.
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Oh I don't know, maybe it's because he created the black soulstone?
Which led to all this.....series of unfortunate events.


How did the black soulstones cause all of this? They have nothing to do with it all starting belial did that just fine on his own after Tyreals fall. If you want to blame anyone for being the catalyst it should be Diablo for orchestrating it or Tyreal for being the trigger. Although I would love to know how Diablo orchestrated Tyreal's fall to Sanctuary. Apparently it was all part of his insane ridiculously foresighted plan.

Kulle is yet another example of a hero in a blizzard game acting like an egomaniac and harassing a perfectly decent person for no other reason thana touch of extremism. (slight exageration) Illidan and malfurion comes to mind immediatly. But even within this single game, Kormac (ok it's sketchy), The Kazra, and all of the recruits we let die trying to raise the catapult. (ok I threw that one in for fun :P )
Edited by XTerranite#1924 on 6/7/2012 5:27 AM PDT
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Zoltun Kulle should of died an epic battle only possible with the aid of the enchantress.
Enchantress should of been an illusion made by Belial since the very start.
Enchantress/Belial helped us kill Kulle because Kulle was about to %@%% the remaining prime evils azmodan and belial with his op godlike NEPHALEM POWAH.

Would of been more unpredictable, not this nickolodeon story line we have, ahh well.
Edited by yeo#6281 on 6/7/2012 5:31 AM PDT
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Posted this same info in another thread, but seeing how it's pretty much on topic...

Actually, Kulle didn't betray you... not intentionally at that moment at least.

When he completed the Black Soulstone for you, the five demon souls instantly entered it. That wasn't supposed to happen. Kulle knew something weird was going on. Because you didn't tell him everything (you didn't know yourself), and because he was suspicious someone was double dealing the scenario, Kulle didn't want to give up the Black Soulstone right away. The hero then thought Kulle was going back on their deal - but he wasn't doing it just to be evil, he was doing it because he was actually right in this case: you were being manipulated.

If the souls didn't enter the stone, Kulle might have let you take it, and he'd have gone off and spun some new evil plan. Kulle was actually more interested in getting the hero to join him, than fight him to the death. Kulle wasn't going to back down though, because he was getting suspicious of everyone involved.

Also the letters claim Kulle isn't that easy to kill off permanently. His body is made of sand, and he could reform himself after time. Hence the whole head cut off and sealing in the Shadow Realm. We might have not seen the last of him...

Yes, this is the best explanation. He was attempting to talk the hero down from their warpath, and the hero basically responded with "Gimme it or die"
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85 Human Paladin
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Posts: 133
Oh come on, what do you expect, WOW? Diablo? If you want someone's items/gold? You kill them. And if that's not enough, you just come back and kill them again and again to loot.
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Zoltun Kulle should of died an epic battle only possible with the aid of the enchantress.
Enchantress should of been an illusion made by Belial since the very start.
Enchantress/Belial helped us kill Kulle because Kulle was about to %@%% the remaining prime evils azmodan and belial with his op godlike NEPHALEM POWAH.

Would of been more unpredictable, not this nickolodeon story line we have, ahh well.


You're being a bit unfair to Nickelodeon -- they do make Avatar: The Last Airbender and Avatar: The Legend of Korra after all.

Your plot idea is interesting, though.

06/07/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Noahhuman
Oh come on, what do you expect, WOW? Diablo? If you want someone's items/gold? You kill them. And if that's not enough, you just come back and kill them again and again to loot.


Setting aside the question of how positive an example WoW is. I don't care about story in games either. However, the story of Diablo 3 gets shoved in your face every time you play, and between that and how terrible/morally disturbing the story is, the story in D3 holds the game back.
Edited by SchemingHero#1982 on 6/7/2012 1:13 PM PDT
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05/20/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Elessius
I am doubting exactly how unkillable Kulle is. Remember, back then, the Horadrim has to use all sorts of artifacts and made huge sacrifices just to take down one prime evil. On the other hand, the current age heroes are powerful enough to confront prime evils in open combat and beat the living day light out of them. So just because Kulle was unkillable back then doesn't mean he is unkillable now.


The Horadrim were fighting Belial & co on full power, when their regular life consisted of wining & dining in Hell and sallying forth to bully humans into becoming their pawns. The current heroes fight the evils when they're just released from a really long captivity (D2) or recently reformed from getting their soulstones pulverized (D3). Try fighting (or hey, just running around) when you are well rested and after you've been starving for a week+, I guarantee there will be a big difference.

As for killing off Kulle, I agree he was on our side and the hero is way too dumb to listen. Also, Cain & Leah are both dead and not known for resurrection miracles - who do you think can help us out in the future D3 exp or D4 with Horadric lore?
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Also, someone said 'his body is made of sand' - not quite true, what it says is that he replaced his blood with the sands of time thereby becoming immortal.

'sands of time' <> random silicates
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Posts: 1,662
I killed Zolton Kulle to show him I was better.

And to shut him up because he was so damned annoying. If only I could have killed Adria too :(

Though given the choice I would have taken him up on his offer to make me immortal.

And Zolten Kulle was not good. He was completely mad which is why the Horadrim had to bop him off in the first place. He made the black soul stone so that he could entrap demon and angelic souls to fuel his own power which he would use to conquer heaven, hell and Sanctuary. Or did you forget about his god complex?
Edited by Shahadem#1174 on 6/7/2012 8:34 PM PDT
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06/07/2012 08:29 PMPosted by Ishtar
And Zolten Kulle was not good. He was completely mad which is why the Horadrim had to bop him off in the first place. He made the black soul stone so that he could entrap demon and angelic souls to fuel his own power which he would use to conquer heaven, hell and Sanctuary. Or did you forget about his god complex?


You may well be right, but it's all based on hearsay and speculation. Not good enough to morally justify killing him, not by a longshot.
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Killing Kulle really bothered me, because there was a clear bargain between the hero and Kulle, and he was perfectly willing to fulfill his end of it (as he says right before we enter his sanctum).
He makes no attempt to betray the hero, yet for no apparent reason the hero randomly decides to attack and kill him thus betraying Kulle, very un-hero like in my opinion.
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I posted this in my constructive review thread, but I figured I'd post the kulle part here. I was incredibly disappointed when my character decided to kill Kulle. I can understanding killing him later on in the story. He's clearly pretty mad, and pretty power hungry. That said, I think Kulle's story added depth in a story where depth was badly needed. All of the villains were incredibly obvious and straightforward, but Kulle? Kulle was pretty off the wall, and we had no idea what he might do next.

They could have done some crazy stuff with him in Act III if we hadn't killed him. He could have complicated the entire plot, and remedied the "DON'T KILL MY STUFF BRO," plot that was the entirety of Act III. Frankly, if Kulle had straight up murdered Azmodan in act III, I would have fallen in love with him. I would have much preferred an epic Kulle fight as the conclusion to Act III, rather than the underwhelming storyline that was Azmodan. Also, the act II -> act III connection would be way more apparent if Kulle remained relevant.

Anyways...

Kulle was one of the few difficult choices that are made throughout the game: Do we resurrect him and risk something potentially as dangerous as Diablo, or do we try and make do without him? Unfortunately, instead of having actual costs for our actions of reviving Kulle, we just kill him immediately and it's over.

Whaaat? Kulle, the one complex (relatively speaking) villain throughout, dies almost immediately after we resurrect him? You guys had so much potential here, but you killed him off instead. He was the one 'cost' we had to pay, the one difficult decision that's made throughout the entire game, and then we kill him as soon as he comes to life. Because aiding Kulle is one of the few difficult decisions made throughout, he becomes a sort of focal point. Honestly, I was way more interested in Kulle than in Belial, and it would have been awesome if he had remained an integral part of the storyline. In a world of good/evil, Kulle stands out because he is neither totally good, nor totally evil.

This, in my opinion, is why Act III falls so very flat. The one well-drawn 'villain' dies, and we're left with a cartoony Azmodan and "Go to point A, B, C" quests for an entire act, and in what should be one of the most important acts at that. It would have been so rad if Kulle had continued on through the story. He could have been the one 'gray' character throughout. Sometimes he hinders us, sometimes he helps us, but ultimately we know we cannot trust him. He is dangerous, but he is also necessary. Kulle, alone, adds so much in terms of difficult decision making for our characters: Do we keep trusting him? When do we take care of him, so to speak? What is his endgame?

But nooo. Instead, we get TACTICS BRO, the one guy on the planet who farts in public and can't help but announce to everyone that he's the one responsible.
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Whaaat? Kulle, the one complex (relatively speaking) villain throughout, dies almost immediately after we resurrect him? You guys had so much potential here, but you killed him off instead. He was the one 'cost' we had to pay, the one difficult decision that's made throughout the entire game, and then we kill him as soon as he comes to life. Because aiding Kulle is one of the few difficult decisions made throughout, he becomes a sort of focal point. Honestly, I was way more interested in Kulle than in Belial, and it would have been awesome if he had remained an integral part of the storyline. In a world of good/evil, Kulle stands out because he is neither totally good, nor totally evil.

This, in my opinion, is why Act III falls so very flat. The one well-drawn 'villain' dies, and we're left with a cartoony Azmodan and "Go to point A, B, C" quests for an entire act, and in what should be one of the most important acts at that. It would have been so rad if Kulle had continued on through the story. He could have been the one 'gray' character throughout. Sometimes he hinders us, sometimes he helps us, but ultimately we know we cannot trust him. He is dangerous, but he is also necessary. Kulle, alone, adds so much in terms of difficult decision making for our characters: Do we keep trusting him? When do we take care of him, so to speak? What is his endgame?


This. So much this.

I'm hoping that an expansion expands on it (ba dum pshhhh) by using our decision to kill him as the thing that enrages Kulle and he uses that as justification to strike back, and ends up killing tyrael and/or entrapping leah's essence in some dark manner. Or some other misguided act that is rooted in the grayness of his character and not just his evil laugh and god complex. But they will probably choose the evil laugh and god complex, let's be honest.
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Its pretty understandable why Kulle dosnt give you the stone right away.
His side of bargain was to give you an empty black soulstone.
But suddenly, five demonsouls, three of wich are prime evil - getting trapped in this soulstone.
Kulle issuses you a warning, tells you that you are beign manipulated (he is totally correct at this) and offers you to abandon your quest (isnt it a good thing to do? he is right at this - again), you call him "mad" and then the fight begins.
He is totally right to review the bargain, since everything is changed by the fact that black soulstone isnt empty anymore and maybe the most dangerous thing in the world at the moment.

Killing Kulle right away is the lamest turnout of story ever.
Game storylines are getting more and more primitive as of later... its not only diablo 3. But I've expected better story quality for diablo 3 to be honest.
Cant belive blizzard actually made a story so stupid like this.
Edited by Рейнхиммель#2538 on 6/18/2012 4:33 PM PDT
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Because Zoltun Kulle = (Hitler + Stalin + Mao) ^ Sauron

and humanity might end up needing the help of immortal homies seeing as even nephalem have a bad habit of dying after a few years
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Zoltun Kulle is a self-serving megalomaniac. He is not doing it for the human race, he's doing it for himself.

He wants to be the most powerful being, you (the player-controlled character) is just a means to an end.
Edited by Hornet85#6574 on 6/18/2012 6:29 PM PDT
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Zoltun Kulle is a self-serving megalomaniac. He is not doing it for the human race, he's doing it for himself.

He wants to be the most powerful being, you (the player-controlled character) is just a means to an end.

And who tells you this?

Adria - mhmm right, in retrospect how did that blind trust work out?

Tyrael - who just calls him 'misguided', and this is an angel who wouldn't want to see humans become pre-eminent; he is just helping us to counter the demons.
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05/19/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Mijuu
Didnt HE try to kill us?

He went all "2001: A Space Oddyssey" on us and we're Dave, because he knows we shouldn't open those pod bay doors, I mean trust Adria, since she used to be in charge of the coven and all. The first time I fought him I was like, "but I agree with this guy! Adria is gonna betray her own daughter because she's not our mana potion selling friend anymore! NOOOOOOO" and I got sad. RIP Broltun Kulle
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Zoltun Kulle is essentially Sanctuary's Lex Luthor.

Also he attacks you because he's pissed you reject his offer of godhood.

It's really not hard to follow if you pay attention at all, instead of just projecting the character you wish he was onto him.
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