Diablo® III

Why do we kill Zoltun Kulle?

Kulle is The Illusive Man's second cousin many times removed. It's really quite obvious.
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Zoltun Kulle was probably the only character I actually liked in the game. His character was interesting, and above all, he supported us, the human/nephalem.

Kulle story <3
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I'm going to make you eat that plot hole.

Everything he says or does seems to be for the human race. He is fighting the angels who have had a majority vote to kill us. He told us our allies were merely controlling us. He told us to run from our allies, and then we just jump and kill him. Why?

He just seems misguided. He's a well intentioned extremist.

Zoltun's story is rather interesting, to say the least. He presented himself as being in support of the human race, but this support was somewhat disingenuous, as he also craved power. Lots of power.

As the story unfolds, he then calls for you to abandon everyone else in order to bring him to ultimate power. Not only would you enslave yourself to him, this would also go against everything you, Tyrael, and Leah have been fighting to restore.

One out-of-character line doesn't justify it. But, because you (y'all at Blizzard) want constructive criticism, and I want legitimate debate, I wish we could have it out.

*You Honors* (as I stand in front of the audience of the Story Forum) *First, I'll prove that line was out of character.* (I stand against the quickening glances of my disbelievers)

(I allow a momentary hush)

Now...Your Honors...if I may....we know first of all that the history books are written by the victors. So, if we are to keep an open mind about the defendant, let us listen to it in his own words:

"Finally, I have unlocked the secret of the soulstones once given to the Horadrim by Tyrael. An impressive creation, to be sure, but one that I am certain can be duplicated. No, not just duplicated - improved upon."

Given that the destruction of the soulstones didn't kill the prime evils, wouldn't Tyreal have welcomed an addition to their arsenal? Imagine I give someone a gun, and then they make an improvement on it so it can pierce my armor. Well, that's what happened.

"My soulstone will be made to contain the souls of many demons, or even angels!"

I'll point out that it is entirely in-character for Tyreal to distrust him, after all, Tyreal felt betrayed that a member of the Horadrim would create a weapon that could kill him. Tyreal felt that after all he did to help humanity, one of them would improve upon the tools he had originally given to them, so Tyreal in a moment of (what could laughably be called) justice ordered Kulle killed. Let's listen to more of my defendant.

"The Black Soulstone will be my greatest work, my legacy, and my gift to humanity. There will be wars to come between man and the creatures of Heaven and Hell. The power housed within my stone is the very thing needed to set mankind free from demons and angels forever."

"It seems my brothers have finally come looking for me. Damn them! I am not ready. Too much of my power is invested in the stone's creation. I must finish it. The future of mankind depends on it..."

Do these sound like the words of a man who was obsessed with his own power? No! They are the words of a man who hated demons as much as angels, and loved humanity. Tyreal executed him for it, worst of all under the guise of 'justice' so we wouldn't have to think with our own minds about whether what Tyreal was doing was just.

So, now we have established that final line from him was out of character.
Edited by LittleDisco#1482 on 8/2/2012 11:15 PM PDT
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You needed his help to get the black soul stone. He might have made a great ally, but he revealed that his true intentions were to enslave humanity, not to save it. Had his plans come to fruition, millions would have died, and he would have been just as much of a threat to humanity as Diablo or Imperius. It's too bad.
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hmm, why do all people instantly assume that "ruling" humanity automatically means slavery?
i mean, you could also rule humanity in a good way, that brings them forward into a new age of peace and prosperity.

i never understood why my character would go and abandon such an opportunity.. kulle would also give you almost endless power with wich you could end the demon invasion without even blinking...

kulle also said something about turning every human into a nephalem... how is that a bad thing for humanity? this rather sounds like some kind of utopia than a terror-reign to me.

the whole kulle-killing thing made me feel like im the bad guy...

the end of the game also made me feel a bit like that.. "uhhm yeah tyrael finally got what he wanted and got rid of being the party pooper guy who's always forced to do the "just" thing"
now he can just go like "guys, guys! i got an idea and since im the wisdom-guy, you gotta listen to it!"

oh and another thing! arent wizards power hungry maniacs themselves? why would they turn down an opportunity to aquire even more power? because they met leia a few days ago and already devoted their lives to her cause? Oo
Edited by Ghul#2186 on 8/3/2012 2:54 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
19090
Posts: 11,852
ZK was a bro. He repeatedly treated the character with respect, told them the truth about adria and emp, and never did them wrong.

He only attacked when we demanded he give the Black Soulstone to Diablo.

ZK was the true hero of D3.
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Posts: 224
Everything he says or does seems to be for the human race. He is fighting the angels who have had a majority vote to kill us. He told us our allies were merely controlling us. He told us to run from our allies, and then we just jump and kill him. Why?

He just seems misguided. He's a well intentioned extremist.

Zoltun's story is rather interesting, to say the least. He presented himself as being in support of the human race, but this support was somewhat disingenuous, as he also craved power. Lots of power.

As the story unfolds, he then calls for you to abandon everyone else in order to bring him to ultimate power. Not only would you enslave yourself to him, this would also go against everything you, Tyrael, and Leah have been fighting to restore.


With all due respect.... :)

I'm not trying to start a debate over this (because it would be unfair given your job description) but this is how he rubbed off on me.

It's obvious that he craved power, yes. However, he comes off as trying to obtain power for good purposes, even though his methods are questionable. There's nothing in the game to insinuate that he wanted to make the player character his patsy, or his slave.

He was absolutely correct about Leah and Adria. And probably Tyrael as well - it's hard to say with Tyrael for sure, because of the fact that we don't know what the expansion has in store. However, Tyrael is a fallen angel now. So really, I wouldn't be surprised if Kulle was correct about him heading the way of Inarius or Izual.

So maybe he wanted the player character to abandon his allies, but I can't really say that I blame him. We really don't have anything in terms of lore to fall back on that insinuates that he's an evil character - there's got to be more to go on than a goofy, evil laugh. Even Covetous Shen says something to the effect of him being "perfectly reasonable" for a mage.
Edited by Sean#1744 on 8/3/2012 6:08 AM PDT
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Posts: 86
[quote]
wow a blue is way off. Zoltun seemed to be the only person to actually know what was going on. He was willing to help you the whole time in exchange for being reborn. He had no problems with the demon lords being wiped out. He was equally suspicous of angels too though. The second he realized that the other lords of hell were already in the black soul stone he knew almost immediately what was going on and fought you to the death to prevent the birth of the prime evil
This. End of thread.
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[quote]
wow a blue is way off. Zoltun seemed to be the only person to actually know what was going on. He was willing to help you the whole time in exchange for being reborn. He had no problems with the demon lords being wiped out. He was equally suspicous of angels too though. The second he realized that the other lords of hell were already in the black soul stone he knew almost immediately what was going on and fought you to the death to prevent the birth of the prime evil
This. End of thread.


pretty much. in the end we didnt even give kulle the chance to betray us, we simply attacked him when he was weakened from finishing the black soulstone and the greater evils being sucked into it...
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Posts: 224
08/03/2012 07:14 AMPosted by Ghul
pretty much. in the end we didnt even give kulle the chance to betray us, we simply attacked him when he was weakened from finishing the black soulstone and the greater evils being sucked into it...


It's a bit ironic that we had Tyrael there and he (being the aspect of Justice) just sat there and didn't say anything. And this was after Kulle had said something to the effect that there was no justice in murder as he was praising Tyrael.
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Reminds me of that dude from survivor redemption Island. He survived out there for countless duals and then when he got back into the main group, they just voted him right out again lol.
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07/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by StarCat
but guys, they only had 10 years to throw a story together, cut them some slack!
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If you saw Hitler II getting ready for his rise to power, wouldn't you want to kill him? He wanted to conquer the world, engineer what he saw as a superior race, subjugate humans, and kill anyone that disagreed with him. It's a shame that ZK turned out that way, but based on his depiction in the canon story, he was just as much of a threat as Diablo and Imperius. He needed to be eliminated.
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Well, at least we made it to page 7 before someone said Hitler.
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08/03/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Starblazer
If you saw Hitler II getting ready for his rise to power, wouldn't you want to kill him? He wanted to conquer the world, engineer what he saw as a superior race, subjugate humans, and kill anyone that disagreed with him. It's a shame that ZK turned out that way, but based on his depiction in the canon story, he was just as much of a threat as Diablo and Imperius. He needed to be eliminated.

With all that time spent on his backstory, it was a total anticlimax to fight him right there.

If nothing else, even if we were to kill him regardless, he should have betrayed us somehow first. Ideally, in some painful way that would really make us want to take revenge on him, while illustrating how power hungry he truly was.

As it was, we completed our agreements (We revived him, he completed his soulstone) and then we killed him. Booooring.
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Posts: 1,194
08/03/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Bianary
As it was, we completed our agreements (We revived him, he completed his soulstone) and then we killed him. Booooring.


The agreement was not to complete it, but to give it to us. He refused to.
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08/03/2012 02:43 PMPosted by AscendedOne
The agreement was not to complete it, but to give it to us. He refused to.


This sounds alot like

"The agreement wasn't for him to just show us his wallet, but to give it to us. He refused to."
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Posts: 69
Everything he says or does seems to be for the human race. He is fighting the angels who have had a majority vote to kill us. He told us our allies were merely controlling us. He told us to run from our allies, and then we just jump and kill him. Why?

He just seems misguided. He's a well intentioned extremist.

Zoltun's story is rather interesting, to say the least. He presented himself as being in support of the human race, but this support was somewhat disingenuous, as he also craved power. Lots of power.

As the story unfolds, he then calls for you to abandon everyone else in order to bring him to ultimate power. Not only would you enslave yourself to him, this would also go against everything you, Tyrael, and Leah have been fighting to restore.


You are told that he is an extremist, but he really doesn't do anything to actually convince the audience (or at least myself) that he is actually a bad guy worth killing.

- he correctly deduces that your allies (Adria) are using you for their own benefit
- he wants to wield the nephalem power for the good of mankind and while he might want more of it for himself, his ultimate goal is to benefit humanity so they won't be at the mercy of demons or angels (whom we will be fighting in D3 expansion)
- I disagree that he stands against everything you, Tyrael, and Leah have been fighting for. He recognizes Tyrael as "the aspect of justice" and probably sees eye-to-eye with him on some level

In the scene leading up to the fight, he realizes that something is wrong with the soul stone and is merely surprised. At no point does he appear hostile (other than having two imposing golems as bodyguards), but for no good reason you go and kill him...
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
5720
Posts: 1,714
As I recall, My demon hunter said something along the lines of, Lets go get those big bad demons with this soulstone buddy!

Then suddenly zoltun kulle started attacking me.

I didn't even get to offer pie or cake.

Madman needed to be put down he CLEARLY was insane his lab was full of demons and skeletons. I don't think those got there by themselves.
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