Diablo® III

Too many Weak skills that WD have

100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456
at level 50 right now. I notice that i am going to be using the same set of skills to carry on from lvl 30 to 50, probably to 60 and in whole of inferno(If i complete it). Its amazing how strong some skills are (think dire bats) and how weak some skills are (think soul barrage).
Initially i thought soul barrage being a single target skill should do more damage than an aoe skill with equal range. Well i was wrong, nobody is using soul barrage right now because the damage just pale in comparison to bats.

With these very unbalanced skills, its really tough to switch to anything else than bats, vision quest, pierce the veil, spirit walk build. Not to mention that zombie dogs get killed in less than 10s fighting mobs and blizzard actually said they scale well even in inferno.
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im using firebomb and locust swarm and that works very well
Edited by ArenaMaster#1860 on 5/17/2012 12:36 PM PDT
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I'm in Nightmare using Dogs with no issues at all with their survivability, as well as avoiding Dire Bats and Soul Harvest.

I keep one skill slot open to swap in various new runed abilties, and its been enjoyable that way.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
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4650
Posts: 1,456
wait till you hit the later parts when you discover....with vision quest + 4 long cds skill....+ mana passive...you can spam dire bats like crazy and your dps is boosted by like 4-5 times and you never run out of mana. You will find that switching to any other build makes you level and go through so much slower and harder...and how bad soul barrage is that you will never touch it again.
Things like haunt are even worse?? they deal so pathetic damage. Why haunt them (even in aoe situations) when you can just spam dire bats on them and get much higher dps and singly "dotting" them with haunt and wasting 1 skill slot...
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100 Human Paladin
5900
Posts: 289
ZD does scale well into inferno- sadly monsters scale much better making Zombie dog's a quick appetizer

Pet's scale off you and your gear- although they won't ever be uber tanking pets, they certainly can hold their own through hell difficultly

also- fire bats seems to be our OP spam skill all the way into inferno, but that doesn't mean others aren't capable of carrying you there as well- it just seems to be easier that way currently
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84 Tauren Druid
0
Posts: 321
wait till you hit the later parts when you discover....with vision quest + 4 long cds skill....+ mana passive...you can spam dire bats like crazy and your dps is boosted by like 4-5 times and you never run out of mana. You will find that switching to any other build makes you level and go through so much slower and harder...and how bad soul barrage is that you will never touch it again.
Things like haunt are even worse?? they deal so pathetic damage. Why haunt them (even in aoe situations) when you can just spam dire bats on them and get much higher dps and singly "dotting" them with haunt and wasting 1 skill slot...


I half agree. Even without SH/Vision Quest, [Dire Bats] kill things so fast, Haunt casts would simply be a waste of mana. Only real advantage of Haunt is casting it on a Boss that takes longer than 6 seconds of chain casting Bats to take down to improve DPS.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456
ZD does scale well into inferno- sadly monsters scale much better making Zombie dog's a quick appetizer

Pet's scale off you and your gear- although they won't ever be uber tanking pets, they certainly can hold their own through hell difficultly

also- fire bats seems to be our OP spam skill all the way into inferno, but that doesn't mean others aren't capable of carrying you there as well- it just seems to be easier that way currently


do they? i just reached hell so i am not sure about it. I run a glass witch doctor with 2k damage, 1.4 cast/s....and only 5.6k hp and a TON of intel. My pets die like flies, i am ok with the gargantuan i mean its awesome, but i cast out zombie dogs and they get killed in a few hits. My intel is REALLY REALLY high for my level but they are still !@#$, i don't know if others are facing the same problem....
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at level 50 right now. I notice that i am going to be using the same set of skills to carry on from lvl 30 to 50, probably to 60 and in whole of inferno(If i complete it). Its amazing how strong some skills are (think dire bats) and how weak some skills are (think soul barrage).
Initially i thought soul barrage being a single target skill should do more damage than an aoe skill with equal range. Well i was wrong, nobody is using soul barrage right now because the damage just pale in comparison to bats.

With these very unbalanced skills, its really tough to switch to anything else than bats, vision quest, pierce the veil, spirit walk build. Not to mention that zombie dogs get killed in less than 10s fighting mobs and blizzard actually said they scale well even in inferno.


INb4 people who are in act 3 normal tell you how great zombie dogs are, without posting their build or a video of their claims in action. And that it "must be your gear" which has probably always been better than theirs the entire game.

I'm running a hybrid build just because dire bats is too mana hungry until I unlock the mana regen passive.

*edit* I'm mostly through nightmare, changed my spec to give my zombie dogs every possible buff, and they still die very easily. I challenge ANYONE in this forum defending the mediocrity of dogs to show me a youtube video of their dogs surviving a full 60 seconds while fighting actual mobs, not trash in act 3 normal. I'm sure they're "great" for sacrificing or "distracting"(aka pulling aggro from mobs that kill them within 10 seconds while the dogs do absolutely no damage to them in exchange) - but to sit there and tell me that zombie dogs scale well into anything besides norm while maintaining a balanced spec seems a little hard to swallow right now. /flame away i'm just telling you what i'm experiencing first hand.
Edited by Spud#1543 on 5/17/2012 1:03 PM PDT
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05/17/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Ilritzll
i don't know if others are facing the same problem....

Post your build!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're trolling or not
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05/17/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Kovas
i don't know if others are facing the same problem....

Post your build!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're trolling or not


The burden of proof should be on the people who claim zombie dogs are actually durable outside of norm, not the people who have effective DPS builds and have watched their zombie dogs die to any sizable mob that isn't complete trash within 10 seconds. I might be over exaggerating a bit but I defy anyone to post a youtube video of 3 zombie dogs surviving their full CD duration while going through mobs at any real speed.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456
05/17/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Kovas
i don't know if others are facing the same problem....

Post your build!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're trolling or not


as you wish, if i remember its something like this
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#cZUjQP!XWU!aZaaaZ
switch direbats to hungry bats, and some other adjustments to runes during boss fights (like the increase damage taken rune)
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100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456
oh oops, i was done with the zombie dogs build awhile at about level 43... it was something like this

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#acYdTk!ZXd!aaaZZZ

can't remember exactly, but the dogs died like fleas.....
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100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456


do they? i just reached hell so i am not sure about it. I run a glass witch doctor with 2k damage, 1.4 cast/s....and only 5.6k hp and a TON of intel. My pets die like flies, i am ok with the gargantuan i mean its awesome, but i cast out zombie dogs and they get killed in a few hits. My intel is REALLY REALLY high for my level but they are still !@#$, i don't know if others are facing the same problem....


The pets scale off your stats, so if you use a voodoo thing in your right hand instead of a shield, your dogs will die faster. If you want to be a damage WD stack int, if you want to be a summon master with tough pets, try vitality and armor, your pets will last a lot longer.


hmmm i always thought they scaled off with just intel...can anyone confirm that they scale to vitality armor etc? because if it does then it all make perfect sense since my WD was a glass....realy high intel but extremely low Vit and armor. But it also feel pointless then, my purpose was to take zombies to tank for me while i dish out huge damage.....
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I had planned on using soul barrage as my main left click skill. What a disappointment, the projectile speed is so slow it unusable.
Agree with op, there are so many bad skills/runes. Yet there are some very strong ones.
Poison Dart Splinters/Acid Cloud Lob Bomb are my main skills, have been using splinters since lvl6 and have yet to find a reliable replacement.
A big problem with a lot of the skills is you have to be melee range or closer(lol) to use them.
I like exploding frogs yet I can be point blank range and they miss.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
IDC
4650
Posts: 1,456
you will probably be using splinters throughout your life, unless you ditch it for vision quest + an high aoe spamming skill like dire bats....180% weapon damage is too high to beat...=S sadly true....think about soul barrage, 190%damage and cost a !@#$load more mana even with the mana reduction rune....comparing to 180% weapon damage and cost almost nothing.
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The pets scale off your stats, so if you use a voodoo thing in your right hand instead of a shield, your dogs will die faster. If you want to be a damage WD stack int, if you want to be a summon master with tough pets, try vitality and armor, your pets will last a lot longer.


hmmm i always thought they scaled off with just intel...can anyone confirm that they scale to vitality armor etc? because if it does then it all make perfect sense since my WD was a glass....realy high intel but extremely low Vit and armor. But it also feel pointless then, my purpose was to take zombies to tank for me while i dish out huge damage.....




do they? i just reached hell so i am not sure about it. I run a glass witch doctor with 2k damage, 1.4 cast/s....and only 5.6k hp and a TON of intel. My pets die like flies, i am ok with the gargantuan i mean its awesome, but i cast out zombie dogs and they get killed in a few hits. My intel is REALLY REALLY high for my level but they are still !@#$, i don't know if others are facing the same problem....


The pets scale off your stats, so if you use a voodoo thing in your right hand instead of a shield, your dogs will die faster. If you want to be a damage WD stack int, if you want to be a summon master with tough pets, try vitality and armor, your pets will last a lot longer.


And then how are you supposed to actually kill stuff? 4 dogs + a gargantuan = 5 summons that are durable(allegedly- i'm only willing to concede that the Garg is durable until someone prooves otherwise with a video) yet do very limited DPS. And also since "the WD isn't meant to be a necromancer(aka have actual effective permanent summons)" and can only have about 5-7 permanent pets, they will still get swarmed and outnumbered in most mob-dense areas. Obviously you still have some spells you can cast but they wont be doing very much DPS since you had to stack a stat that doesn't buff your DPS at all(makes tons of sense!)

I like the WD, i'm not trying to troll -but zombie dogs suck - someone prove me wrong with a video of them surviving in NM and beyond. He's a spell caster with pets as distractions, and despite Jay Wilson saying we're going to have a bazillion viable builds, a pure-summoning WD just isn't one of them for some reason. Much to the dismay of people like me who wanted to roll one.
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I am only level 10 so my knowledge of what's OP and what's not is very very limited.

I tested Fire Bat this morning (I didn't use it 'cause I thought you need to spend skill point to get it. lol).

I've been using mostly just Poison Dart (3 darts) and Grasp and it's killing so fast already. And then I tried Fire Bats.. HOLY! !@#$. Each tic of Fire Bat does even more damage than 3-4 darts hitting ONE target and Fire Bats is a cone attack! Yes, endurance cost is much higher because spamming Poison Dart doesn't seem to drain my blue bar at all. But one use of Firebats can finish off a big group of enemies in a matter of 3s.

I wish Grasp could do a bit more so my blue bar actually moves down. lol By using Poison Dart and Grasp, my mana is limitless.

The 3 dogs are pretty good aggro-magnet. Their damage is low but we'll see. I use dogs as my "vision" because they always aggro before I do and I know which direction I should attack. lol

I am going to stay away from Firebats. I mean the game is soooo easy so far and I don't want to be get bored too soon.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 5/17/2012 1:29 PM PDT
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The dogs have a one minute cooldown, and thus aren't intended to be permanent pets that some people seem to want to view them as.

They aren't supposed to be damage dealers; they aren't supposed to be a set of 3-4 extra tanks that don't die. They do exactly as they are slotted -- Defensive.

You just had a big fight and most of your dogs died? Well imagine those mobs hitting you instead of your dogs. Either way, BFD just resummon them and you'll have new fresh ones to work with.
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