Diablo® III

I really refuse THAT was tyrael

Posts: 593
I really almost refuse to believe THAT character in this game was the same tyrael from Diablo 2.

In diablo 2, no matter what, Tyrael was alway firm, resolute, and unflaggible. He knew what options he had and what he needed to do in a given situation, even if the option he had was almost hopeless.

No matter the situation he always sounded in control; listen to him when he's telling marius to run: He knows he's about to get his but handed to him by baal and diablo, and the situation is grim, but he doesn't go breaking down and crying like a whiny little baby like he does in this game: He knows he still has a job to do and a CHANCE no matter how small of marius keeping the stone out of the evil's hands.

On the other hand, i just wanted to slap him constantly in this game. How the heck did Blizzard turn one of my all time favorite characters into such a whiny baby?

I mean, this is literally like if Gandalf started crying about how bad of a job he'd been doing in return of the king. They took a character who was the knowledgeable authority figure helping the heroes, and just ruined him.
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I really almost refuse to believe THAT character in this game was the same tyrael from Diablo 2.

In diablo 2, no matter what, Tyrael was alway firm, resolute, and unflaggible. He knew what options he had and what he needed to do in a given situation, even if the option he had was almost hopeless.

No matter the situation he always sounded in control; listen to him when he's telling marius to run: He knows he's about to get his but handed to him by baal and diablo, and the situation is grim, but he doesn't go breaking down and crying like a whiny little baby like he does in this game: He knows he still has a job to do and a CHANCE no matter how small of marius keeping the stone out of the evil's hands.

On the other hand, i just wanted to slap him constantly in this game. How the heck did Blizzard turn one of my all time favorite characters into such a whiny baby?

I mean, this is literally like if Gandalf started crying about how bad of a job he'd been doing in return of the king. They took a character who was the knowledgeable authority figure helping the heroes, and just ruined him.


But remember, Gandalf wasn't human either.

What if Gandalf suddenly became a man, would he be the same?
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How much time did we spend with Tyrael or witness his actions and mannerisms in D2? not much, I would say.
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I really almost refuse to believe THAT character in this game was the same tyrael from Diablo 2.

In diablo 2, no matter what, Tyrael was alway firm, resolute, and unflaggible. He knew what options he had and what he needed to do in a given situation, even if the option he had was almost hopeless.

No matter the situation he always sounded in control; listen to him when he's telling marius to run: He knows he's about to get his but handed to him by baal and diablo, and the situation is grim, but he doesn't go breaking down and crying like a whiny little baby like he does in this game: He knows he still has a job to do and a CHANCE no matter how small of marius keeping the stone out of the evil's hands.

On the other hand, i just wanted to slap him constantly in this game. How the heck did Blizzard turn one of my all time favorite characters into such a whiny baby?

I mean, this is literally like if Gandalf started crying about how bad of a job he'd been doing in return of the king. They took a character who was the knowledgeable authority figure helping the heroes, and just ruined him.


Tyrael is an Arch Angel and the embodiment of Justice. This is why we don't see him breaking down, crying, or wavering. In Diablo 3 he is just a man with the entire range of human emotions to boot.
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Posts: 593
05/19/2012 12:13 AMPosted by Reslin
In Diablo 3 he is just a man with the entire range of human emotions to boot.


And every single ONE of those emotions is apparently being a whiny baby. Just because someone is a human doesn't mean that they should break down crying or be a wuss, no matter how you explain it: This is the same reason why people thought it was idiotic that samus broke down crying in Other M: It made no sense for our grizzled hero to do that.

I mean, We don't see Captain america suddenly break down whining over how bad the situation is; We don't see Master chief break down crying over how he's screwing up.

Just because your a human is no excuse to be such a baby when you were so awesome before.
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Yeah the character you play is just some random guy who kills every prime evil combined, never once complaining (?). I dont see why a former ARCHANGEL OF JUSTICE cant be a badass in mortal form too.
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Where did you pull out all that characterization for the D2 Tyrael? Out of thin air?

He was the good angel guy, nothing more. At least this time around he almost seems like a character.
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86 Blood Elf Warrior
6325
Posts: 14,238
05/19/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Olaf
Yeah the character you play is just some random guy who kills every prime evil combined, never once complaining (?). I dont see why a former ARCHANGEL OF JUSTICE cant be a badass in mortal form too.

Because Diablo kicked down the door to his home and did naughty things that are censored on this forum, to it.
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
Posts: 93
Imagine it this way, he went from being an angel. An eternal and lofty being that really had no concept of suffering that the mortal races experience. To suddenly go from eternal and "carefree" to mortal, having to experience emotions, feel your mortality, see things through mortal eyes... you'd change too and trying to come to grips with painful emotions you've never truly experience before can be overwhelming and hard to sort out and can make him come across as a whiny baby.
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People say he isn't a man, but a "mortal" when I bring up the question on how an angel can somehow change himself into something that is the result of an angel + a demon. IE, they suggest that he is still an angel-- just a mortal one.

Then people say he IS a man, not just a mortal when they're trying to explain his sudden (extreme) change in character. IE, he is no longer an angel, but rather something else entirely. In this case, a human-- subject to human emotion and human thoughts. Which begs the question: Why and how is he able to do this? Angels are not omnipotent, they cannot just decide to change what race they are.

IMO the answer in either case is "bad writing".
Edited by Hexxus#1912 on 5/19/2012 1:38 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
Posts: 93
Well basic rule of angels, in general it seems, you cut off their wings or they get rid of their wings they become human/mortal. At least according to Catholic dogma or something.
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05/19/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Zeamays
Well basic rule of angels, in general it seems, you cut off their wings or they get rid of their wings they become human/mortal. At least according to Catholic dogma or something.


That could have worked if Blizzard had stuck closer to the judeo-christian mythos setting, where everything is interlinked by a divine creator. Humans in the Diablo universe, however, are partly comprised of something 100% anathema to angels. So again I have to wonder, how did Tyrael manage to become something that is partly anathema to him? And if he didn't, then why did his character change so drastically? Odds are there isn't a good explanation from a lore standpoint... Just bad writing.
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85 Gnome Warlock
7375
Posts: 1,032
In Diablo 3 he is just a man with the entire range of human emotions to boot.


And every single ONE of those emotions is apparently being a whiny baby. Just because someone is a human doesn't mean that they should break down crying or be a wuss, no matter how you explain it: This is the same reason why people thought it was idiotic that samus broke down crying in Other M: It made no sense for our grizzled hero to do that.

I mean, We don't see Captain america suddenly break down whining over how bad the situation is; We don't see Master chief break down crying over how he's screwing up.

Just because your a human is no excuse to be such a baby when you were so awesome before.


I'm sure you would have fare much better in the face of what he was witnessing.

Tyrael was for all intents and purposes, someone who had just recently come to understand the concept of mortality, and was massively depowered. Not to mention the Betrayal by Adria. Its amazing he fared as well as he did when he saw that the results of his actions may just have doomed the universe and there was nothing he could do yto stop it.
Edited by Wingofbenu#1411 on 5/19/2012 2:22 PM PDT
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Posts: 249
05/19/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Hexxus
Well basic rule of angels, in general it seems, you cut off their wings or they get rid of their wings they become human/mortal. At least according to Catholic dogma or something.


That could have worked if Blizzard had stuck closer to the judeo-christian mythos setting, where everything is interlinked by a divine creator. Humans in the Diablo universe, however, are partly comprised of something 100% anathema to angels. So again I have to wonder, how did Tyrael manage to become something that is partly anathema to him? And if he didn't, then why did his character change so drastically? Odds are there isn't a good explanation from a lore standpoint... Just bad writing.
It is pretty obvious he isn't completely human. He still has some angelic powers, but he is in fact mortal. He can die, which is something angels don't have to worry about.
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90 Draenei Warrior
6100
Posts: 122
imagine this, you are a mighty member of the human race right? well one day your a-hole peer tries to kill you for saving some dogs that someone was gonna kill and because of this you decide being a human sucks so you turn yourself into a dog. that's basically what happened to tyrael
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21 Human Mage
180
Posts: 1,176
05/19/2012 10:18 AMPosted by aleksandor
And every single ONE of those emotions is apparently being a whiny baby. Just because someone is a human doesn't mean that they should break down crying or be a wuss, no matter how you explain it: This is the same reason why people thought it was idiotic that samus broke down crying in Other M: It made no sense for our grizzled hero to do that.


he wasn't even "whiny" until he saw the state that the High Heavens were in. He broke down when he thought that Auriel would be klled because she was Hope. Also he faced the utter destruction of his entire former race. In D2 he had none of that to deal with.

Also being mortal opens you up to a bunch of emotions he never would have felt.

Also people arent always the same. As TH White says it is almost impossible to write a "real" character because real people aren't just one way. they may be loyal sometimes, they may other times be disloyal. However you have to give attributes to people in literature. In short just because someone has been one way doesn't mean they will never change.
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Posts: 81
It doesn't matter that he is "human and has emotions." Even the guards at Bastion Keep still tried raising them pointless catapults despite the fact that they meant absolutely nothing. And they were constantly under fire by demons. Tyrael just sat his butt in town.

Even Cain knowing that he is going to die didn't whine and he still forges the sword.

The list goes on.

Tyrael of all people knew exactly what was at stake. And who is to say that Angels do not have emotions already? Judging by the cutscenes and dialog, I'd say they do. You see them angry, you see them sympathetic, you see them worry. All of which are emotions. So the "oh but he is human now" argument is not even valid.
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Posts: 81
05/19/2012 06:12 PMPosted by Prunea
And every single ONE of those emotions is apparently being a whiny baby. Just because someone is a human doesn't mean that they should break down crying or be a wuss, no matter how you explain it: This is the same reason why people thought it was idiotic that samus broke down crying in Other M: It made no sense for our grizzled hero to do that.


he wasn't even "whiny" until he saw the state that the High Heavens were in. He broke down when he thought that Auriel would be klled because she was Hope. Also he faced the utter destruction of his entire former race. In D2 he had none of that to deal with.



So by that logic, he should still have hope in saving Auriel then? He is a warrior after all correct? Also, he had a lot more to deal with in D2 than he does here in D3.
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I don't think I saw the same Tyreal you did. The ONLY time he lost hope, was when Diablo had broken into Heaven. He was pretty much righteous and committed to what he was doing outside of that.

And to be honest, he was more righteous than that Fate Archangel, even while he was human.
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