Diablo® III

Is imperius dead after diablo 3??

05/21/2012 08:02 PMPosted by Willza
Remember the leader was IMPERIUS, and in the final cinematic TYRAEL becomes the leader. So yeah, we were confused because we were being fed two contradictory lines.


TYRAEL become Wisdom not leader


Wisdom is the leader of the Angiris Council. Imperius was not the leader until Malthael (Wisdom) vanished around the time that the Worldstone was destroyed. As there wasn't anybody up to the task of becoming Wisdom, it fell to the second in command.
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05/21/2012 07:07 PMPosted by Nargrakhan
Does it really matter? Even if Imperius did die, he would just come back after some time.


Yes, when you are talking about at least 20 years later. That matters.
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05/21/2012 08:15 PMPosted by Gazenthia
Does it really matter? Even if Imperius did die, he would just come back after some time.


Yes, when you are talking about at least 20 years later. That matters.


To a changed world, yes. But that's not the same as permanently dying, which is the kind of question I think the OP is insinuating.

Death for an angel or demon isn't the same as death for a mortal... it's more of an inconvenience.
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05/21/2012 08:20 PMPosted by Nargrakhan


Yes, when you are talking about at least 20 years later. That matters.


But that's not the same as permanently dying, which is the kind of question I think the OP is insinuating.


I think we get it, after Wrath, after Tyrael telling us, and blah blah blah to the fifth degree.

Whether or not he is dead at the moment is relevant, pertinent, for all of the points I brought up before which I'll restate here:

1) When Tyrael became the leader of the Angiris Council, was Imperius there in a humbled state or not? Did he agree to that, or did he run, or what?

2) No seriously, how could they still be undecided about what to do with a prominent character that they went to great pains to establish? Is he going to be in the expansions or not?
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05/21/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Gazenthia
1) When Tyrael became the leader of the Angiris Council, was Imperius there in a humbled state or not? Did he agree to that, or did he run, or what?


We don't know for certain if Tyrael is leader of the council. We know he took the seat of Wisdom. That doesn't mean he's automatically the leader, just because it used to be the old leader's seat. Furthermore, Tyrael explicitly states why he didn't take up the seat of Justice again... and the seat of Wisdom just happened be to vacant.

As for Imperius... only the Blizzard writers know for certain. From what we've seen and read, he's very much full of pride and anger, so there's a good chance he isn't humbled at all. He doesn't have to turn to evil (though it's cliche enough for Blizzard to jump on), but if remains on the side of good, he could cause just as much problems being the same jerk he's proven to already be.

05/21/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Gazenthia
2) No seriously, how could they still be undecided about what to do with a prominent character that they went to great pains to establish? Is he going to be in the expansions or not?


D3 is chock full of plot holes. Not exactly or anywhere near the literary level of Nostromo, The Tale of Genji, or Shakuntala.

He was still alive when he was "de-powered" and you fought Diablo (you could clearly see him breathing). I don't know why people think he was dying. Sure, the wound was major, but Tyrael himself said it could heal... he was just concerned that Imperius was going to fight Prime Evil Diablo with that wound... but at no point did it sound like Tyrael was worried Imperius would die from that wound - just if he continued to try fighting with it.

So I'm gonna go a limb, with him still being alive before the big fight, that he pulled through. Heck... his absence from the final cinema could mean he didn't approve of Tyrael taking the seat of Wisdom (i.e. not willing to honor the decision by not being there), than because he was dead.
Edited by Nargrakhan#1559 on 5/21/2012 8:57 PM PDT
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We don't know for certain if Tyrael is leader of the council.

Look man, I know.

I know.

They screwed a couple of things up there at the end and that was one of them. We are supposed to feel a double whammy when he becomes Wisdom because it should've been imparted to us beforehand that it means that the Angiris Council decided to have him as their new and proper leader.

Sure, the wound was major, but Tyrael himself said it could heal

That was regarding the wound that Diablo gave him, and before Diablo reached the... I think it was the crystal arch.
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88 Undead Warlock
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Posts: 5,394
05/21/2012 11:46 AMPosted by PheL
So Angels and Demons don't really die? Than what is the point in all this "defeat the lords of hell" bullsh1t if they r just gonna come back anyway?


That's always been the case.

Diablo even before Diablo I was slain many times. Thing is, there was supposed to be a special way of trapping them all in the black soulstone and offing them forever.

EVEN TYRAEL explained how the blast at Arreat destroyed him and it took him 20 years to reform.
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05/21/2012 09:14 PMPosted by Gazenthia
They screwed a couple of things up there at the end and that was one of them. We are supposed to feel a double whammy when he becomes Wisdom because it should've been imparted to us beforehand that it means that the Angiris Council decided to have him as their new and proper leader.


Or maybe he isn't the leader, and just holds the seat of Wisdom. That could be totally intentional... especially if jerk !@# Imperius still wants to call the shots. We have no idea. I'm sure the expansion (whenever that happens) or perhaps a post-ending novel will let us know.

05/21/2012 09:14 PMPosted by Gazenthia
That was regarding the wound that Diablo gave him, and before Diablo reached the... I think it was the crystal arch.


True... but he didn't look any worst for wear when you saw him before the Crystal Arch chamber. He was fine enough to think he could take you on, and then fight Diablo for round two.

We know nothing about the constitution of an angel, except they made from harmonic sound and light. That hole in his gut looked nasty, but it might have been as bad a broken arm would be for a normal human. Seriously painful, but survivable. Those lesser angels around him (who looked uninjured), also fell to their knees when de-powered, and like Imperius they were still breathing.

Sure, Imperius could have died off camera. Then again, he could have lived off camera. There's enough evidence to say he pulled through just fine. I'm just pointing out that either result is clearly possible, without invalidating what we saw.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
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05/21/2012 08:55 PMPosted by Nargrakhan
Heck... his absence from the final cinema could mean he didn't approve of Tyrael taking the seat of Wisdom (i.e. not willing to honor the decision by not being there), than because he was dead.

The only archangel present in the ending cinematic was Itherael. Impy might not have been visible but that doesn't mean that he died or was purposefully absent - if that was the case, then it would also suggest that Auriel was either dead or MIA, she wasn't visible either. (Or was she? I might have missed it)

There isn't much evidence to work with, but from the facts that I gathered, it is relatively safe to assume that Impy's still alive, though he's probably grouchy and hitting things somewhere.
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89 Human Mage
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05/21/2012 08:02 PMPosted by Willza
Remember the leader was IMPERIUS, and in the final cinematic TYRAEL becomes the leader. So yeah, we were confused because we were being fed two contradictory lines.


TYRAEL become Wisdom not leader


Then who becomes justice?
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Posts: 45
05/21/2012 09:48 PMPosted by Alphatiger
Then who becomes justice?


No one. The exact quote Tyrael gives during ending while taking the seat...

"Since Justice has been met this day: I will now stand as Wisdom. On behalf of those who risked all to save us."

So... yea... I guess he retires the title of Justice, like how professional athletes retire jersey numbers. Or something like that.
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05/21/2012 10:00 PMPosted by Nargrakhan
Then who becomes justice?


No one. The exact quote Tyrael gives during ending while taking the seat...

"Since Justice has been met this day: I will now stand as Wisdom. On behalf of those who risked all to save us."

So... yea... I guess he retires the title of Justice, like how professional athletes retire jersey numbers. Or something like that.


The problem I have with with all of this is that being the Archangel of Wisdom/Fate/Hope/Valor/Justice isn't exactly an occupation. It's what they are. They weren't elected or hired to begin with,they were born as aspects with powers and abilities unique to them. They're aspects of Anu.
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Posts: 45
100% agree with you on that part. It's very lame that Tyrael did that. IMHO, he should have returned to Sanctuary with the hero and the companions. I'm sure Lyndon could have shown one heck of a time. In fact, I'd have rather seen an ending cinema of Lyndon giving Tyrael is first beer at a tavern celebration in New Tristram, than the lame-o thing we got.

Tyrael needs to know what it means to be human, before representing them. Spending a few days on Sanctuary as a mortal was not enough. He may have the body of a man, but still thinks as an angel (with some very minor human experiences).

Furthermore, the Angiris Council would have been in an odd number configuration without Tyrael: Auriel, Imperius, and Itherael. Majority vote rules. If Imperius died, then no biggie. Canon lore states that Auriel and Itherael get along really well (maybe even in some sort of angelic relationship), and they seemed to have it together during the invasion. They could rule without Imperius, and get some major ground work complete before he's reborn to complain about it... not like he could veto them any ways (they have the voting block).

No need for Tyrael up there.

Though the demons are leader less, there's undoubtedly stragglers left on the Sanctuary. Not to mention Adria. Tyrael could do more immediate good -- and learn to be human -- by adventuring on Sanctuary. The hero and the companions were keen on Tyrael, so they'd certainly enjoy his company doing this.
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Maybe that's the expansion, Imperius turns against them, who knows?
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85 Night Elf Druid
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Posts: 15,399
It would be very, very dumb if this character was created and developed throughout the game just to have him killed by a random explosion.

He's still alive. Blizzard did the same thing in WCIII's expansion by showing a broken Illidan lying on the ground for us to assume he was dead...only to have him pop up as a boss in WoW.
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I think its important to remember, Tyreal was scattered after he destroyed the World Stone at the end of D2. Because he is the embodiment of an ideal, he will reform. Assuming the level damage done reflects the time out of service, he would be back in comission very shortly considering his Arch was not destroyed.
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32 Gnome Mage
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Posts: 1,198
they massively failed this character by having him get instagibbed by diablo, like their fight should go on for hours and not get 2 shot
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Posts: 460
He survives his confrontation with Big Red, although clearly Diablo's version of "Fus ro DAH" hurt him. Your character meets him moments after the cine and Imperius greets him with a peevish "This is all your fault!"

Jeez, what a complainer.

;)


Well, you gotta cut the guy some slack, but when it comes down to it, this whole mess really is the hero's fault.
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100 Pandaren Priest
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He's not dead just because he's missing in the last cutscene, Auriel is standing right there while you're looting Diablo's body, she's obviously fine

As for the Wrath video, I think the idea there was to create dissention among the angels, after the Evils realized their infighting screwed themsleves over they wanted to put that weakness in the Heavens too. Maybe it's just a bizarrely non-canon event even though it was produced by Blizzard.

I'm a bit mystified by the idea of Diablo "coming back" since it goes both ways. In act 3 Tyrael talks about how he could have killed Azmodan once and for all, but didn't. But then in act 4 there's a scroll about Malthael and how it's weird that no replacement for Wisdom has come out of the Crystal Arch, as if it just randomly coughs up reinforcements and/or rezzes.

The only thing I can guess is that perma-death only happens on your home turf, the Wrath video appears to be set in the heavens. Otherwise you're weakened and banished like Tyrael was. If that's the case and the storyline ISN'T inconsistent, it means the victory in D3 just sets back the clock for someone else to deal with the Evils later.
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85 Tauren Warrior
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Angels can't die, neither can demons.
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