Diablo® III

1 handed + offhand VERSUS 2 handed for DPS

So which is better? Does it make any difference at all in the end when it comes to damage?

I found this:

The interval between damage ticks of locust swarm and haunt does not seem to be affected by attack speed. (Can not confirm!)

So perhaps 2 handers are better for DoT builds.


From what I read, I do know that it does make a difference in terms of resource management with you use channelled skills:

When you channel a skill with a continuous effect such as Disintegrate, it will deal damage based on cycles, which are equal in length to your swing speed, that is 1/APS value. The damage is calculated based on those cycles, then spread over the whole cycle duration so that it's dealt to the target continuously instead of once every cycle. Just as with DOTs, damage is shown as combat text every half a second, with rounded numbers.

A thing worth pointing out is that channeled skills deal same dps over time no matter the weapon speed, but their cost is paid per attack cycle, therefore making faster weapons burn your resources at a higher rate compared to a slow one. As Wizard and Witch Doctor are the main users of channeled spells, and they do not have access to real resource generator abilities like the other classes' Primary Skills, considering weapon speed is of utmost importance for their resource management. This is really no different to any other skills, but people might find the continuous nature of channeled skills confusing.
Edited by Anton#1813 on 5/22/2012 8:08 PM PDT
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The one that gives you more dmg is the better. Also if it gives vit thats a huge plus.
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It does end up making a difference for two reasons. First, you end up using less mana to do the same amount of dmg meaning you can cast the spell for longer. Second, abilities which are not channeled do more damage per hit, meaning that when you aren't spamming the ability and getting hits all the time you end up doing more damage. For example when you're kiting something you don't tend to be taking advantage of a high attack speed.

You may know this already but one important thing to note is that most abilities are based off of damage per attack rather than DPS. Meaning that if you have two weapons with the same dps, the one with the slower attack speed does more damage per hit. So most of the non-channeled abilities end up doing more damage with a two handed weapon. Even if it has the same DPS as a faster one handed weapon. On top of that Two handed weapons generally have a higher DPS than one handed weapons.
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05/23/2012 08:56 AMPosted by FalconRider
Even if it has the same DPS as a faster one handed weapon. On top of that Two handed weapons generally have a higher DPS than one handed weapons.


The problem is, I struggle to find any 2h that would give me higher dps than my current knife+mojo setup, this includes drops and AH. Maybe because I have 60-70 INT on both, and there are no 2h for my level that have 150 INT.

I found a bow that, when compared, showed that I would get +50 damage, but when actually equipped resulted in the same drop in DPS. I guess it does not take mojo into account when comparing.
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I've been using a shield in Inferno. Yea my DPS isn't as high, but I like the extra 10% in damage reduction. It is worth far more than the extra damage.
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Vitality is pointless in inferno
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85 Troll Rogue
10490
The problem is, a lot of WD damage is based off of weapon damage. If you have a 700 DPS one hander instead of a 1200 DPS two hander you are losing out on a LOT of damage. I would always prefer the massive damage output increase over 10% damage reduction, especially since you can make up that reduction on other pieces of Resist All / Intelligence gear.
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You get +damage in your offhand. It's *significantly* better to use MH/OH than 2H AND the +x-x damage adds to skills that go off of weapon damage.

I'm using 700 dps (shopping for 9-1k but we'll see) MH and +102-399 dmg offhand. Haven't found a 2her that beats it (tried a 1100 dps 2h on and it was -2k damage.)
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Even if it has the same DPS as a faster one handed weapon. On top of that Two handed weapons generally have a higher DPS than one handed weapons.


The problem is, I struggle to find any 2h that would give me higher dps than my current knife+mojo setup, this includes drops and AH. Maybe because I have 60-70 INT on both, and there are no 2h for my level that have 150 INT.

I found a bow that, when compared, showed that I would get +50 damage, but when actually equipped resulted in the same drop in DPS. I guess it does not take mojo into account when comparing.


It does depend a lot on what you can find. However as I've gotten closer to lvl 60 the 2 handed weapons have started to have a significantly higher dps than the one handed weapons. I also managed to find a 2 handed weapon that had 160 int in the AH so that helped a lot as well. And no the off hand is never taken into account in the DPS shown on the weapon.

You get +damage in your offhand. It's *significantly* better to use MH/OH than 2H AND the +x-x damage adds to skills that go off of weapon damage.

I'm using 700 dps (shopping for 9-1k but we'll see) MH and +102-399 dmg offhand. Haven't found a 2her that beats it (tried a 1100 dps 2h on and it was -2k damage.)


Again, which set up is better depends a lot on playstyle. If you are using darts or something else that has a low mana cost, the DPS on one handed weapons is sometimes nice. However if you're using mana heavy abilities like zombie bears mana efficiency comes into play when you're looking at the total amount of damage you're able to put out during a fight. The other hard thing to take into account is how often you're actually able to channel something. Chances are when you're kiting you aren't taking advantage of the attack speed on a faster weapon because you don't usually get to sit and spam abilities. Meaning that you're effective dps is not necessarily higher, even though the number in your states is higher. That being said you should always base what you build on what you can find and how you play. I've been very lucky finding good 2 handed weapons with high DPS and good stats and I tend to kite a lot so I get a distinct advantage from the 2 handed weapons.

It's also important to remember that attack speed doesn't increase the damage of many abilities (like locusts). Most abilities use weapon damage which is dps divided by attacks per second. That means that if your 1 handed weapon attack speed is 1.4 the damage actually done is DPS/1.4 which is a significant reduction on abilities that you can't spam. So DPS can be a bit deceiving sometimes.
Edited by FalconRider#1109 on 5/25/2012 11:31 AM PDT
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a good mojo alone will outtake any 2h.
224-822 a 1,4 attack speed (~800 dps) + a 107-344 mojo means 331-1166 damage a 1,4 attack speed.
slower 2h weapons around 1k DPS have a similar max damage but a higher min damage. that's all, it doesn't increase your damage, it just gives it a higher average damage but at the high cost of cast speed and affixes (1h+oh can have twice as many affixes).
the only other advantage is that it's easier to obtain one good weapon instead of two.
Edited by zUkUu#2148 on 5/25/2012 11:48 AM PDT
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I think if you want a higher 2H damage, you should go with a 2H bow because a 2H staff/axe/sword casts a lot slower. Yes, each hit is higher but when things get really tough, you want to cast faster so you can kite.

I just don't know if 2H Bow base damage is as high as a 2H Axe/Mace.
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90 Undead Mage
14040
05/23/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Baler
Vitality is pointless in inferno


Only if you don't go to an extreme with it. You have to accept that at certain points there will be specials that will have the right abilities to pin you down, whether it's Jailer, Waller, or just freezing you. You either don't bother with Vitality and bend over, or get tons of it and take some broken bones.
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I'm in act 3 inferno and I'd like to weigh in here on this issue.

Faster casting weapons lock you into animations for less time; this is vital for inferno as desecrate poison and fire pools will kill you instantly if you dont move. Big slow two handed weapons lock you into place and you get killed a lot even though the damage LOOKS nice it really isn't worth the trouble unless you have something massive (around 1000).

Witchdoctors could use other gear but it's kind of dumb not to use a mojo/mask/dagger. Why? For one two items gives more stats and that is a huge deal (each one could also have a socket). Lets also not forget that only these three items can give you mana regeneration (which will be tripled with vision quest if that is your favorite thing). Most of the skill boosts seem meh as I'd much rather have max mana and mana regeneration. Quite simply more mana is more power.
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05/26/2012 03:52 AMPosted by Glythe
Faster casting weapons lock you into animations for less time; this is vital for inferno as desecrate poison and fire pools will kill you instantly if you dont move. Big slow two handed weapons lock you into place


Not always the case, channeled spells like dire bat will shoot their bat off at the same rate regardless of weapon speed, the channeling spells pay their swing time after their effect is put out into play instead of before like with most other skills.

In a run-gun direbat build, you'd use a 2hander.

05/26/2012 03:52 AMPosted by Glythe
Quite simply more mana is more power.


You could also divide your damage to get damage per mana. If you use a slower weapon, you use less mana to do the same DPS in a given time. 2 hander builds therefor take less mana and as such do not require as much regeneration or starting pool.

People need to stop trying to make hard-n-fast rules about mechanics. Every build is going to be slight different on terms of gear.
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they should basically balance out, but for the witch doctor this is not so, because our skills use mana. a dagger or 1-hand w/ mojo is a damn sight faster than any respectable 2h, and although they do (or should do) about the same damage when you think about it, the dagger and mojo eat your mana. they EAT IT. the 2h is a placid, dainty fellow who enjoys some nice lite mana. THE DUAL WIELD EATS IT AAAALLL

(but I use a sword and mojo with 30% as bonus from gloves/sword.... because otherwise I would die my face off :3)
Edited by Squid#1250 on 5/26/2012 4:29 AM PDT
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I'm with Glyth on this one. I find with a slow weapon, I am easy prey in Inferno. My ideal setup is going to have Zunimassa's boots (the ones with + attack and run speed), + attack speed gloves, Lidless Wall with +attack speed, and possibly more elsewhere if necessary. Hell, maybe a Wizardspike to top it off.

Frankly, it depends a lot on your build as well. Not every build is going to have you running out of mana using a fast weapon. You have primary spells for a reason; you regen at least as fast as you lose spamming them. If you plan on just spamming dire bats or zombie bears, then yeah, you probably will run out of mana.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. It certainly isn't black and white. Different builds and different situations call for different stats.
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There is a right answer, 2h all the way. More/similar dmg with a much cheaper price tag and twice as easy to re-sell when you want to upgrade.
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05/23/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Relk
The problem is, a lot of WD damage is based off of weapon damage.


Not sure if Troll, or simply does not understand game mechanics :D
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05/26/2012 04:16 AMPosted by Sirix
Faster casting weapons lock you into animations for less time; this is vital for inferno as desecrate poison and fire pools will kill you instantly if you dont move. Big slow two handed weapons lock you into place


Not always the case, channeled spells like dire bat will shoot their bat off at the same rate regardless of weapon speed, the channeling spells pay their swing time after their effect is put out into play instead of before like with most other skills.

In a run-gun direbat build, you'd use a 2hander.



Have you tried dire bats with a 1 attacks per second two hander vs. a 1.8 attacks per second one hander? You can REALLY easily see the difference. Dire bats lock you into place longer on the slower weapon.
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