Diablo® III

Witch Doctor Life Leech Per Hit, By Skill

Did an experiment with a 100 life per hit weapon with various skills to see how much benefit each skill gets from the listed value, as a "hit" is a little ambiguous. WIP

/tick - per tick, or each time the skill does damage for a Damage Over Time spell. The amount of ticks you get for the duration of the skill is dependent on weapon speed.
/enemy - per enemy, for Area of Effect spells. Each enemy hit by the spell is counted.
/cast - per cast, generally for multiple projectile spells. This is the total potential the spell can leech assuming every projectile hits something.
STACKS - This skill will stack with itself for the DOT portion, thus your spells can overlap and you will get tons of hits. Some spells like poison dart poison damage stack with themselves, but the additional ticks don't count as hits for life gain, so this will only work on skills that count /tick.

Primary Skills:

Poison Dart - 200%
Splinters - 33%/dart (100%/cast)
Numbing Dart - 200%
Spined Dart - 200%
Flaming Dart - 100%
Snake to the Face - 200%

Corpse Spiders - 16% for each JAR hitting something. Individual spider hits do nothing. Also nothing if you miss with the jar. Unfortunately makes a mediocre spell even crappier... I originally started this because I thought per hit life leech would be great with spiders.
Leaping Spiders - 16%
Spider Queen - 30%/enemy/tick
Widowmakers - 16%
Medusa Spiders - 16%
Blazing Spiders -

Plague of Toads - 66%/toad (200%/cast)
Explosive Toads - 66%/toad (200%/cast)
Toad of Hugeness - 0%
Rain of Toads - 50%/enemy/tick STACKS
Addling Toads
Toad Affinity

Firebomb - 66%/enemy
Flash Fire - 20%/bounce (140%/cast)
Roll the Bones - 22%/enemy
Fire Pit - 66%/enemy/tick STACKS
Pyrogeist - 33%/projectile (this thing shoots out a lot of little fireballs, I didn't count them)
Ghost Bomb

Secondary Skills:

Grasp of the Dead - 16.5%/enemy/tick
Unbreakable Grasp - 16.5%/enemy/tick
Groping Eels - 16.5%/enemy/tick
Death Is Life - 16.5%/enemy/tick
Desperate Grasp - 16.5%/enemy/tick (probably stacks, but you only get to overlap once, for 2 seconds)
Rain of Corpses -

Firebats - 16.5%/enemy/tick
Dire Bats - 33%/enemy
Vampire Bats - 25%/enemy/tick?
Plague Bats - 33%+? This one is hard to test because I have very little mana. it does increase the longer you apply it.
Hungry Bats - 33%/bat
Cloud of Bats

Haunt - 100% per target hit and none on the DOT. If it acquires another target after the first one dies, it will count as another hit.
Same for all runes - Not confirmed, but very likely

Locust Swarm - 33% per target, same as haunt. Each time it spreads it will hit, but no bonus from the DOT.
Pestilence - 33%
Devouring Swarm
Cloud of Insects
Diseased Swarm
Searing Locusts - 33%

Others:

Zombie Charger - 50%/enemy
Leperous Zombie - 50%/enemy/tick
Undeath - 50%/enemy
Wave of Zombies - 8%/zombie/enemy/hit - I'm not sure, but it seemed like these guys can hit the same enemy more than once
Explosive Beast - 50%/enemy
Zombie Bears

Post by Elegy

Spirit Barrage - 100%
Spirit is Willing - 100%
Well of Souls - 33% per soul (4 total)
Phantasm - 25% per enemy per tick
Phlebotomize - 100%
Manitou

Fetish Army - 0%
Fetish Ambush - 40% on cast if it hits a mob (Unsure about this one!)

Summon Zombie Dogs - 0%
Rabid Dogs - 100% per enemy per tick of the DoT (With a single ZD attacking an enemy, I noticed a 200% tick right after every attack, which may mean the DoTs were overlapping.) STACKS
Final Gift - 0%
Life Link - 0%
Burning Dogs - 100% per enemy per tick of the AoE aura (STACKS per dog)
Leeching Beasts -

Sacrifice - 33% (per enemy? These were tested on single targets.)
Black Blood - 33% (per enemy?)
Next of Kin - 33% (per enemy?)
Pride - 50% (Glitch? per enemy?)
For the Master - ?? (appears to be glitched and healing me for LESS than it should, should have healed for 3x 3154, but only got back 9260)
Provoke the Pack

Gargantuan - 0%
Humongoid - 0%
Restless Giant - 0%
Wrathful Protector - 0%
Big Stinker - 100% per enemy per tick of the AoE aura
Bruiser - 0%

Wall of Corpses - 16% per enemy per tick
Barricade - 20% per tick
Unrelenting grip - 16% and 33% per tick
Creepers - saw 16% and 33% per tick on the wall, the adds provided no ticks.
Pile on -
Dead Rush -

Acid Cloud - Very tricky and needs a lot more testing! I think the Acid Cloud and Acid Rain might be effected by distance from the center. Appears to be 166% near the middle, down to 16% at the edges
Acid Rain - Most ticks around 280% near middle
Lob Blob Bomb - Blob ticks around 33% but saw 16% and 50% as well.
Slow Burn - Ticks of 16%, 33%, and 50%
Kiss of Death - Ticks of 16%, 33%, and 50%
Corpse Bomb


On Sacrifice - I was getting 16% per enemy
On Acid Rain - These numbers are all over the place, but they are always a multiple of 40% for me, so I'm just gonna say the base is 40% and it ticks A LOT faster than other spells.

Non Damaging Skills (Soul Harvest, Horrify) - 0%. However, SH runed for damage does get 25% per target up to 5.

Note on pets - Zombie dogs and gargantuan hits will not give any life. However, flaming zombie dogs aura is 100% per enemy per tick per dog!! I don't have big stinker yet but I imagine it is the same. Potentially huge, but good luck keeping them alive...

vs Life Leech % - Leech % is pretty straight forward. The more damage skill does, the more you will leech. As you can see, some skills benefit much more than others from life per hit (flaming zombie dogs, flash fire), while others benefit more from leech % (spiders, locust swarm), so which to get really depends on your build and what skills you use.

Fierce Loyalty - Life on hit does NOT benefit your pets. You will still get the life though

Other on hit effects - Flaming Zombie Dogs and Big Stinker WILL proc on hit effects (fear, blind, ect) via their aura, but NOT on their attack. This is pretty awesome, if you manage to get some 10% combined stun/fear/freeze and have 5 aura pets surrounding something that isn't immune, it WILL be more or less permastunned.

05/22/2012 04:27 PMPosted by Eshi
actually, yes, I think they do. I have a 1.9% fear on hit helmet and rarely proc'd it until I changed builds using this thread. Now I trigger fear TONS of times, it's ridiculous. I'm going to start loading up on x% on hit enchants.
Edited by Karisu#1319 on 6/3/2012 4:33 PM PDT
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Clarification regarding Pets, Fierce Loyalty, and Life On Hit -

Pet damage auras did and currently still do heal you for 100% of your Life On Hit, for each enemy and for each pet. This can give you thousands of hp per second, and you can make a very effective tanky WD build pre-Hell difficulty with this.

Why pre-Hell only? Because it is still very difficult to keep Zombie Dogs alive without huge amounts of resists and armor. In case anyone missed the other threads, vitality does nothing for pets. Why Zombie Dogs? Because they allow for up to four times the effect, as opposed to the Gargantuan's one.

Previously some people reported that the Fierce Loyalty passive would let the pets heal themselves as well as you, from the Life On Hit proc. This allowed them to stay alive and tank extremely effectively even in Hell mode. This has apparently been removed, which makes pets (and Fierce Loyalty) once again not viable in later difficulties.

Edit: This change was not in the hotfix list. It may have been a bug to begin with. I was never able to confirm the massive pet healing from Life on Hit and Fierce Loyalty myself, but it should have been pretty obvious and apparently multiple people witnessed it, so I believe it WAS working (or bugged) at some point.

Other on hit effects still work with pet auras. This is actually really great, as you can stack freeze, stun, fear, knockback, ect. on different slots and really get a ton of procs. However, as before without the Fierce Loyalty healing, zombie dogs die too quickly in tougher difficulties.

Regarding what is a bug or not, I really can't say because Blizzard won't grace us WDs with information regarding what goes on in the minds of their developers, so we really have no idea how things are intended to work in the first place.

My personal opinions:

I think that allowing Life Per Hit to work with Fierce Loyalty would be great. It would MAYBE give Zombie Dogs a chance in high difficulties (I think they would still get one shotted in Inferno without enough defense!) and allows us to have more fun with our builds. Not to mention making Fierce Loyalty actually have a use at all.

I think that 100% life/hit/tick/enemy of the pet auras could be an oversight or a bug, especially when pet attacks do not count at all. A lower number could be reasonable. I would hate to see this get nerfed though... its not like this build allows us to beat Inferno solo less than a week after release like some other classes. It also in a way requires use of Zombie Dogs to really make a difference (4x aura), and we all know how viable taking Zombie Dogs are later.

I think that Life Per Hit should proc off spider hits. I think that Zombie Dogs should scale with Vitality. But now I feel like I'm just being greedy and wishing for buffs for my favorite skills so that I can actually use them. On a side note, I have now joined the dark side of VQ spam to progress through Hell difficulty, with great reluctance. VQ builds makes me feel dirty.


Now that all that is out of the way and the list is fairly comprehensive, I'd like to move on to conclusions and builds!

Disclaimer - I do not claim any of this makes a viable solo Inferno build! This information is for those who wish to use life leech to find effective skills to use it with!

With certain skills, Heal per Hit will give you much more life than Life Leech %. This is the primary conclusion I was testing for with this experiment.

You get much more healing from the various Poison Dart runes that tick over time. Flaming Darts and Splinters actually get much less.

Rain of Toads gives really good healing, because it has a good %, AOE and stacks with itself over time. Check out Orban's build! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149009942. I've tried this myself and enjoyed it, although I can't vouch for Inferno Viability.

I imagine with a Vision Quest build, Acid Rain will heal for tons as well in a similar manner to Rain of Toads.

And last but not least, PETS! Pet damage aura runes give you insane amounts of healing. In addition, pet auras will proc on hit effects at staggering rates. The problem is keeping them alive... http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271500086 for more information on that.

My thoughts on Inferno and game design - Again, a disclaimer that I am not in Inferno yet. I believe Inferno is gear dependent with an emphasis on Defense (and Resistance) rather than Vitality. This has been discussed in other threads (true diminishing returns on Vitality, and not on Defense). I am further convinced of this as most defensive healing skills, pots, ect. are FLAT numbers rather than a %, which would be better for stacking tons of life. With flat numbers, having huge amounts of damage mitigation will make each point of life healed that much more effective, as long as there is a reasonable amount of life to cushion a number of hits.

We Witch Doctors don't have a gimmick like other classes to clear inferno with just straight damage less than a week after release. However I think as people get geared properly, Witch Doctors will really shine as tanky dps with great utility and CC. I made this thread because I believe that life leeching will be an integral part of this type of build. I hope everyone can use the information here to be creative and look past the "OMG WD SUCK IM GONNA USE ANOTHER CLASS" and "VQ OR UR DOIN IT WRONG" type of thinking down the road.

I look forward to the day I can deliver some exploding Flaming Zombie Dogs into Diablo's face in Inferno. Currently, that day seems very, very far away.
Edited by Karisu#1319 on 5/24/2012 3:09 PM PDT
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Posts: 484
I was wondering how leech worked with various skill mechanics. Thanks for sharing this information.
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Thanks a ton, this is awesome.
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Posts: 422
+1

Nice. I was looking for some basic information and I came across this very specific breakdown. Good luck to on your travels with your WD.
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This is excellent. Is Snake to the Face a zero 0% life leech or are you unable to test it?

Corpse Spiders would get a huge nice buff if they leeched life. I would run them for sure.

Any data on Acid Cloud?
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+1 awesome.

though it seems bad news. unless you can stack at least ~3k+ life on hit you can pretty much not "exploit" this is for inferno elites.

3% lifesteal might even work better infact :(

i feel like blizz didnt really want leech builds for WDs.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11555
Posts: 75
05/21/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Karisu
However, flaming zombie dogs aura is 100% per enemy per tick per dog!!


Have you tested this for certain or just speculating?

05/21/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Karisu
vs Life Leech %


If you continue this, it may be beneficial to analyze how much each individual spell gets from this, if it differs. (For example, does each tick of the spiders damage return healing appropriately, for example? How does this interact with flaming ZD or Big Stinker gargantuan?)
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Thanks for the info!

I'm on Hell difficulty and I tried it with Big Stinker gargantuan with +500 life on hit. I can confirm its 100% per enemy per tick, so probably it works the same with the flaming zombie dogs. You wont gain the life gradually if the Stinker hits more than 1 enemy, but all at once per second. So it feels like playing with a walking healing potion :D

Then I took it a step further and swapped in Fierce Loyalty. :D I can also confirm that the + life on hit works on the Stinker itself!!! So now you can both heal each other and it even works with the healing effects of Healing Journey and possibly other skills.

So what about the final step (havent tried yet): Imagine adding 4 burning zombie dogs that heals me which in turn chain heals the Stinker and vice versa. You could make a funny summon build while stacking armor, vit, +life on hit and maybe thorns. And watch everything die while standing still.

Gonna visit the AH and try to get some gear for that last step :P
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THANKS FOR THIS!

KEEP THE SPELLS COMING!
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84 Tauren Druid
0
Posts: 321
Awesome information. Linked to it from my build ( http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4927183159 ) if you do not mind. If you do, just let me know and I'll take it down.

Thanks again! Keep up the good work man!
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wow this is a very useful, informative thread, thanks a bunch for doing this work!
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Amazing, I tried my final step with some lousy vit gear and +700 hp on hit. Not sure if the chain heal works, but at least the dogs and stinker heal me and themselves individually.

Cant wait to gear up for inferno.
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Thanks for the info!

I'm on Hell difficulty and I tried it with Big Stinker gargantuan with +500 life on hit. I can confirm its 100% per enemy per tick, so probably it works the same with the flaming zombie dogs. You wont gain the life gradually if the Stinker hits more than 1 enemy, but all at once per second. So it feels like playing with a walking healing potion :D

Then I took it a step further and swapped in Fierce Loyalty. :D I can also confirm that the + life on hit works on the Stinker itself!!! So now you can both heal each other and it even works with the healing effects of Healing Journey and possibly other skills.

So what about the final step (havent tried yet): Imagine adding 4 burning zombie dogs that heals me which in turn chain heals the Stinker and vice versa. You could make a funny summon build while stacking armor, vit, +life on hit and maybe thorns. And watch everything die while standing still.


Oh my, this sounds so cool!!!

So with flaming dog and stinker, the "+life on hit" is better than "% damage converted to life" because their base damage is very low right?

With Fierce Loyalty, those 5 pets are healing YOU and themselves at the same time right?
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Amazing, I tried my final step with some lousy vit gear and +700 hp on hit. Not sure if the chain heal works, but at least the dogs and stinker heal me and themselves individually.


Are you certain that with Fierce Loyalty, your pets can leech FOR YOU? The description says they can leech for themselves?

But even if they don't leech for you, it is still pretty amazing if both flaming and stinker can leech 100% around them. That's 100% per target around them?
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 5/22/2012 11:53 AM PDT
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I was under the impression that Fierce Loyalty only worked on "life regeneration for x amount over y seconds" and did not work for "gain x life per hit" gear.
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Jibikao, your first post is spot on. Normally, both pets only leech for ME alone, with Fierce Loyalty they leech for THEMSELVES also + I can leech for both of them. The only thing thats hard to test is if the stinker leeches for the dogs via me and vice versa.

I just played an hour on hell with 4 and its amazing. Not even neccesary yet to go on shield, only the dogs die now and then, the stinker is immortal even with some crazy champs.

Happy zookeeping! :P
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90 Draenei Shaman
11555
Posts: 75
OO0nMe, your posts make me think we should perhaps start a new thread with testing on all the different abilities/affixes that cause pets to regen health using Fierce Loyalty.
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Jibikao, your first post is spot on. Normally, both pets only leech for ME alone, with Fierce Loyalty they leech for THEMSELVES also + I can leech for both of them. The only thing thats hard to test is if the stinker leeches for the dogs via me and vice versa.

I just played an hour on hell with 4 and its amazing. Not even neccesary yet to go on shield, only the dogs die now and then, the stinker is immortal even with some crazy champs.

Happy zookeeping! :P


Mmmm, I thought the pets can't leech for you but with Fierce Loyalty they can leech for themselves. I didn't know with Fierce Loyalty, you can leech for your pets too? That sounds really awesome!
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Good thread. Nice to see some creativity instead of taking the obvious, easy, and boring builds.
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