Diablo® III

Witch Doctor Pet Stats Scaling Research (old)

06/01/2012 10:03 AMPosted by XenoExclusiv
My other question is, is there a place where I can find out which item slots can get which CC's, or any attribute for that matter?

I'm not sure how to answer your skills question, as many people are doing different builds. But several can work. In my case, fire dogs and stinky garg are key, but I use locust for extra DOT, spider queen, and Gotd: rain of corpses for extra slow/automatic bombardment.
Oh, and I do use fetish army to go along with my primary summoning theme, but it likely isn't the most optimal for this build. I don't see them proc very often at all, But do offer some extra meat shield/damage during touch battles after my dogs are wiped out the first time.

But the auction house is how I learned. Each type of gear may only have one type of CC available according to the AH, except the weapon and offhand, which have all of them. Searching by CC is easy. But chest armor**, jewlery, and pants do not have defensive CC to proc
Edited by BafroomHumor#1121 on 6/1/2012 11:41 AM PDT
Thank you very much for the response!

Yea I totally understand that we want CC as much as possible, but was more inquiring if any further proc opportunities were necessary after Big Stinker, Fire Dogs etc. Having not tried the build yet, I'll take you word for it and sport a few more CC friendly skills.

And good idea about the AH, didn't think of that.

Great stuff!

EDIT: Just saw above post too, really good info there also.

And also Rorix, I thought Spider Queen could only be cast once?
Edited by XenoExclusiv#6935 on 6/1/2012 10:50 AM PDT
06/01/2012 10:45 AMPosted by XenoExclusiv
Yea I totally understand that we want CC as much as possible, but was more inquiring if any further proc opportunities were necessary after Big Stinker, Fire Dogs etc. Having not tried the build yet, I'll take you word for it and sport a few more CC friendly skills.


The pets will proc the CC a decent amount but having more chances for it to go off is always better. Nice aoe DoTs like rain of toads and acid rain will cause the procs to go off even more...plus they can be stacked so that they are ticking multiple times a second.
Posts: 7
Spider Queen can only have one at a time yes but it lasts about 10 sec and has a constant aoe.
Lovely!

Sticking with the beginnings of this thread, are people still gearing for pet stat buffing affixes (including Fierce Loyalty + regen/thorns) as well as these CC's?

Don't worry, questions will subside shortly!

I'm going to purchase as good as 400k can get me in terms of CC gear, and try the stinker/fire dogs/queen combo, and hope that's enough procing to let me slip in BBV with mana rune and bears too.
It seems like Blizzard is recognizing our pain with the pets on the harder difficulty and they are working on ways to improve them. Lylirra posted this over in general discussion

While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).
Edited by Gothir#1796 on 6/1/2012 11:10 AM PDT
That's great to hear and all, but makes it extremely difficult to part with hard earned gold for gear that may be relatively obsolete in the near future :\
Edited by XenoExclusiv#6935 on 6/1/2012 5:53 PM PDT
Posts: 7
That blue post made me happy least they realize that pets other than specific spec are mostly useless in hell-inferno.

Everything should be in the summary in the first post.

Right now people are just heavily discussing about CC stats like freeze, fear, blind, stun, etc.


I would add this information onto the first page for effects gear itemisation.

Asymmetric:
Max possible stats.

Onehander + 2.5% chance to Stun/Freeze/Blind/Fear/Immobilize/Knockback/Slow/Chill
Offhand/shield + 2.5% chance to Stun/Freeze/Blind/Fear/Immobilize/Knockback/Slow/Chill
Twohander + 5% chance to Stun/Freeze/Blind/Fear/Immobilize/Knockback/Slow/Chill
Head +5% chance to Fear
Neck +5% chance to Blind (the search function is broken on the AH for this, but trust me amulets can have blind on them)
Belt +5% chance to Freeze
Boots +5% chance to Immobilize
Bracers +5% chance to Knockback
Pants +5% chance to Slow
Shoulders + 5% chance to Chill
Gloves +5% chance to Stun
Pants +5% chance to Slow

Chest and Rings do appear to be able to get recieve any chance to proc effects.

Bleed effects seem to only appear on weapons and offhand/shield slots, but they can be found on the same weapon with other chance to hit effects.


please someone help me out because i'm at work and i'm so amp'd up to try this. I think its going to be a s%&$ ton of fun. Can anyone comment on the amount of money I would need to totally regear and go a cc pet build successfully


Less than you would think. It's a very niche build with niche stats, your number 1 priority is the CC stats on gear which does not appear to be in high demand for many other classes/builds.

This thread is more than spectacular. Few quick questions before I stay gearing up for this badboy!!

At what point is procing overkill? In that how many skills are we willing to commit to for the sole purpose of procing. Big Stinker, Fire Dogs and a primary not enough to have a near constant effect? Would Fetishes ever be considered in this build?

My other question is, is there a place where I can find out which item slots can get which CC's, or any attribute for that matter?

Cheers. Xeno.


Look up for gear itemisation for cc's.

You bring a valid point.

We know that CC pet builds have the potential to be quite potent. However what is the best way of creating one?

The core of any CC pet build is basically going to be:

Flaming Zombie Dogs
Big stinker
Spirit Walk (Let's face it, it's every single build)

Passives:
Zombie Handler
Jungle Fort

That leaves you with one passive and 3 skills to play about with.

You can go extremely proc heavy, and run things like rain of frogs, fire pit, grasp of the dead alongside your pets, generate huge numbers of chance on hit effects or you can try to run a hybrid build that uses the CC fields as an added bonus while pounding an enemy with more conventional firepower.

Let's look at the biggest problems for CC pets builds.

1) Enemies that can't be CC'd. Basically anything with invulnulerable, shielding or the ACT 2 Boss Belial. The other boss's seem to atleast be effected by stun/freeze.

2) Enemies that don't need to be close to deliver damage. All ranged enemies. Especially AoE ones, like the Act 4 Meteor guys or the Act 3 Heralds of Pestilence

3) Enemies that spew AoE all over the ground regardless of whether there CC'd. Basically Champion/elite packs with plague, molten, mortar. Certain enemies leave behind posion clouds when killed, the Act 1 trees dropping mushrooms, A lot of Act boss's.

4) Getting your pets split up in an open space. If your minions split up and there CC isn't overlapping they'll start dying individually. This is a problem that can be more solved by positioning but it is something to be aware of in the more open areas.

Potential Solutions:

The solution is damage, damage or more damage.

Option 1

Mass Proc Build

- Stack Bleed effects and damage/attack speed on top of CC.

Flaming Zombie Dogs
Big stinker
Spirit Walk
Fire Pits/Rain of Toads
Spider Queen
Grasp of the Dead, rain of corpses.

Passives:
Zombie Handler
Jungle Fort
Optional

Option 2

Vision quest zombie bears behind a wall of CC.

- Stack high damage on top of CC. You will be more vulnulerable with this build so stacking higher than usual vitality and resistances is recommended. You will also need to keep your pets on cooldown to trigger vision quest. Big bad vodoo with mana regen rune might aleviate this burden. Probably safer than other VQ bear builds due to the CC shield auras.

Flaming Zombie Dogs
Big stinker
Spirit Walk (mana)
Zombie Bears
Fetish Army/Big bad vodoo/confusion/zombie wall/horrify
(choose two of the above)

Passives:
Zombie Handler
Jungle Fort
Vision Quest

Option 3

Splinter Darts Kiting

- Stack raw damage and attack speed on top of CC.

Flaming Zombie Dogs
Big stinker
Spirit Walk
Splinter darts
Unbreakable Grasp of the dead
Haunt (slowing)/Zombie wall

Passives:
Zombie Handler
Jungle Fort
Pierce the Veil
Edited by Asymmetric#2604 on 6/1/2012 11:43 AM PDT
How is Bleeding effect in this game? So far, I've seen one that does 58 bleeding damage per second. That doesn't seem high at all at lvl 50. :(

And also, what is the difference between Slow and Chill? I am going to assume Chill slow down their attack speed while Slow snares their movement?
The proc heavy build is amazing for group play. I ran with a Demon Hunter and Wizard and they loved being able to just dps and not have to kite nearly as much. My dps was gimped by swapping for cc gear and the low dmg but high hit rate spells but in a group others were able to bring the pain while I brought a heaping handful of cc.
06/01/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Jibikao
How is Bleeding effect in this game? So far, I've seen one that does 58 bleeding damage per second. That doesn't seem high at all at lvl 50. :(


A brief glance at the AH and you can get bleed damage ticking for about a 1,000 a second off a one hander+shield with a proc rate of 26%.

The question thst needs to be answered is can it stack. I.e. if you keep triggering bleed effects will it just refresh the timer or will it add a new one on top.

06/01/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Jibikao
And also, what is the difference between Slow and Chill? I am going to assume Chill slow down their attack speed while Slow snares their movement?


I assume this is the difference.

I currently use every single proc effect on my build and my screen is just a clusterf*@k of status effects going off so it's hard for me to actually tell.
Edited by Asymmetric#2604 on 6/1/2012 12:03 PM PDT
It seems like Blizzard is recognizing our pain with the pets on the harder difficulty and they are working on ways to improve them. Lylirra posted this over in general discussion

While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).

Oh thank christ. I knew they'd catch on ;P
I don't mind sacrificing vit for extra pet survivability (it feels more natural to me really) but something to do with damage reduction from AOE would be a nice start.

And I like that idea, Asymmetric. Much less digging for people to do. Also, where do you find pants/ammy with CC? :U since the AH is silly, I cannut search for it
Edited by BafroomHumor#1121 on 6/1/2012 11:51 AM PDT
Exactly what I was sitting and contemplating as we speak.

The build I was most likely looking at was option 2, but without VQ. Am I missing something there? By BBV with mana rune is more than enough regen to spam bears. Maybe Fierce Loyalty could take it's place and roll some regen/thorns? Or even go for more fetishes?

EDIT: I'm relatively sure I read somewhere that bleeding does not stack. Merely resets timer.
Edited by XenoExclusiv#6935 on 6/1/2012 11:51 AM PDT
85 Human Paladin
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Posts: 694
the blue post about vitality affecting pets possibly is nice i guess. the only problem with that is most WD's clearing act 3/4 inferno are stacking INT, not VIT. so the pets will be getting a pretty small amount of HP gain, and will still be 1-2 shot.
Exactly what I was sitting and contemplating as we speak.

The build I was most likely looking at was option 2, but without VQ. Am I missing something there? By BBV with mana rune is more than enough regen to spam bears. Maybe Fierce Loyalty could take it's place and roll some regen/thorns? Or even go for more fetishes?

EDIT: I'm relatively sure I read somewhere that bleeding does not stack. Merely resets timer.


You might be right about vision quest. I've not really be running bear builds myself but if you can keep the bear spam up without it using mana rune of BigbadVodoo and walk, then you'd be better of ditching it so you can use your cooldowns when nessessary. You could always take splinter as well and just rotate between them when out of mana.
Edited by Asymmetric#2604 on 6/1/2012 11:55 AM PDT

And I like that idea, Asymmetric. Much less digging for people to do. Also, where do you find pants/ammy with CC? :U since the AH is silly, I cannut search for it


Pants should just have "chance to slow" in the search requirements. Or atleast, I can see them.

Searching for amulets with +blind on them... your boned. There is no search function for chance to blind on amulets but they can have them (my character has got a 3.4% one). Best bet, stick the search function on rare and put it to your max level and then just look at every search result that turns up. You should run into atleast 1 in 10-20 pages of results. Sorry I can't be more helpful than this but Blizzard needs to fix the AH.
Edited by Asymmetric#2604 on 6/1/2012 12:00 PM PDT
So it looks like I'll be saving for some CC gear WITH thorns/regen + int. Str and Res too.

Splinter
Bears
Stinker
Fire Dogs
BBV
Spirit Walk.

Zombie Handler
Fierce Loyalty
(Undecided).

I'd love them to patch pets for Vit bonuses, but hopefully not too soon or I'll be wasting a whole lot of money ;)
Question:

Since Soul Harvest is pretty risky in higher difficulties, could it be replaced with Sacrifice runed with Provoke the Pack?

At what point does the extra Int from Soul Harvest = 15% damage?

If you used the passive "Zombie Handler" you could get a 20% boost (and the dogs become more viable...)

I noticed that the dogs only have a 60 second cooldown, and the damage lasts 30 seconds

EDIT: what if I sacrifice twice? do I get +30-40% damage (and no dogs) for 60 seconds?
Edited by SolGrumpy#1835 on 6/1/2012 1:00 PM PDT
Question:

Since Soul Harvest is pretty risky in higher difficulties, could it be replaced with Sacrifice runed with Provoke the Pack?

At what point does the extra Int from Soul Harvest = 15% damage?

If you used the passive "Zombie Handler" you could get a 20% boost (and the dogs become more viable...)

I noticed that the dogs only have a 60 second cooldown, and the damage lasts 60 seconds, so...

EDIT: what if I sacrifice twice? do I get +30-40% damage (and no dogs) for 60 seconds?


That's another build all together, you won't have enough Zombie Dogs to go around if you're just using regular old Summon Dog skill, you'll need to use Mass Confusion/Big Bad Voo Doo's Zombie Dog runes where they have a 50% chance to summon Zombie Dogs.

Also, Provoke the Pack only lasts 30 seconds, doing it twice won't become 60.

This is specifically talking about using pets as a sustainable and reliable damage source/soak. Sacrifice builds are risky builds that rewards players who're after a little more luck factor involved in their builds. It's very, very niche. Much more niche than the CC pet build everybody talks about in this thread.

It's definitely less gear dependent though, as it's all about raw damage.
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