Diablo® III

Looking for arguments: Against life on hit

Posts: 335
Hello Hardcore brothers and sisters,

I realized recently that my worship of life on hit has made it difficult for me to consider any other weapons than dual wielding (naturally I'm not considering Witch Doctors and Wizards). My dogmatic belief needs to be crushed by well reasoned arguments.

Bring down your rational hammer!!!
Edited by Garner#1249 on 5/28/2012 6:51 PM PDT
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Life on hit is currently the best modifier for sustained regen during combat.

It doesn't need to be bashed down.

But dual wielding isn't always the best option. Having an excellent shield can drop 5-10% of the damage you see coming in on your character. You want to have a slow burn of HP loss and replacement from life on hit - rather than a squishy character who's life jumps up and down by huge %'s.

You can't regain life via life on hit if you're frozen/stunned. This is the fastest way these character builds go down. Build to survive, use life on hit to stay topped off against any opponent.
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Life on hit requires you to be attacking. This isn't always possible. If you happen to be under crowd control effects or kiting and running away you aren't healing with that life on hit. Also, in later difficulties the amount of life gained is reduced heavily and does not scale with the amount of damage you will take.

It's not a horrible stat, but it's by no means a mandatory one. In inferno when I see life on hit or lifesteal %, I cringe because of how little life it actually returns.
Edited by Philo#1871 on 5/28/2012 12:18 PM PDT
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% Damage returned as health is a far better modifier IMO as it will scale better with your character. Also allows for switched up from dual wielding to grab a shield.
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^ I've always believed that the bigger slower hits want the %. As for a Demon hunter who shoots a million shots, maybe having the +lifeonhit and not % would be better.
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05/28/2012 12:30 PMPosted by LeakyEar
^ I've always believed that the bigger slower hits want the %. As for a Demon hunter who shoots a million shots, maybe having the +lifeonhit and not % would be better.


Dont both life on hit and %damage returned as life suffer from a debuff/drop in inferno?
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I have a dual wielding DH and I used a leech build all the way through normal. I think leeching, for me, is the strongest build for my DH on normal. In the later levels I could spam elemental arrow with the ball lightning rune against large crowds and just watch my health globe fill up. Against Belial's minions and Belial in his humanoid form I never even vaulted or moved, except to avoid his ranged attacks. I just spammed hungering arrow (puncture rune) and pointed my mouse at whatever mob was closest and my health barely ever budged. Keep in mind that I had life on hit on both bows (both with high dmg), my rings, and my amulet. Hell, I might have even had it on my armor (probably regen), too.

I'm not having the same same success with it in NM for the reason Mercurial mentioned. I have 2 bows with +35 on hit, but my life is dropping fast with the champions. So now I'm considering a shield to taper off the large dmg swings. I still love the dual wielding leech mayhem, but I don't think I'm going to be able to sustain that gameplay. At least the added difficulty makes it more interesting and forces me to come up with a new build.
Edited by Rinkydink#1796 on 5/28/2012 1:29 PM PDT
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Posts: 567
What about instead of life on hit, it would be possible to stack huge amounts of natural regen with a high resist build?
I could see this being potentially useful on a monk/barbarian. Im assuming if you somehow could reach something insane like 1000hp/second it would be useful?

Is this possible?
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Posts: 567
I have a dual wielding DH and I used a leech build all the way through normal. I think leeching, for me, is the strongest build for my DH on normal. In the later levels I could spam elemental arrow with the ball lightning rune against large crowds and just watch my health globe fill up. Against Belial's minions and Belial in his humanoid form I never even vaulted or moved, except to avoid his ranged attacks. I just spammed hungering arrow and pointed my mouse at whatever mob was closest and my health barely ever budged. Keep in mind that I had life on hit on both bows (both with high dmg), my rings, and my amulet. Hell, I might have even had it on my armor (probably regen), too.

I'm not having the same same success with it in NM for the reason Mercurial mentioned. I have 2 bows with +35 on hit, but my life is dropping fast with the champions. So now I'm considering a shield to taper off the large dmg swings. I still love the dual wielding leech mayhem, but I don't think I'm going to be able to sustain that gameplay. At least the added difficulty makes it more interesting and forces me to come up with a new build.


You need to realize +35 on hit is really terrible once your at the 15KHP levels your at in NM.
You should be criting fairly often at minimum 1200 a crit - so if you instead used a %life steal you would see better numbers.

Lets see some numbers - your currently at 35+ on hit.
If you could attain, say 10% lifesteal from weapons amulet/rings (easily attainable figures at lvl 40) you will restore ~100 damage per 1000. As a DH you should be pumping out 1000damage every hit, so you literally almost just tripled your life sustain.

TL;DR - Life per hit good for early game. Life steal much much better for later.
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What about instead of life on hit, it would be possible to stack huge amounts of natural regen with a high resist build?
I could see this being potentially useful on a monk/barbarian. Im assuming if you somehow could reach something insane like 1000hp/second it would be useful?

Is this possible?


I keep looking for bows that have both life on hit and regen, but I have never seen any. I suspect they don't exist. I haven't really tested regen, but I guess it depends on what kind of high regen attributes are out there on items. I can't find a list of regen item attributes (from highest to lowest) that makes searching for regen items on the AH worth the effort, but if I find a list I might tinker with regen.
Edited by Rinkydink#1796 on 5/28/2012 1:05 PM PDT
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Posts: 25
05/28/2012 12:30 PMPosted by LeakyEar
^ I've always believed that the bigger slower hits want the %. As for a Demon hunter who shoots a million shots, maybe having the +lifeonhit and not % would be better.


Mathematically it's the same. 1.2(20)=1.2(10)+1.2(10)
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05/28/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Rinkydink
I can't find a list of regen item attributes (from highest to lowest) that makes searching for regen items on the AH worth the effort, but if I find a list I might tinker with regen.


I looked on the SC AH for level 60 gear and saw a chest piece with 508 life per second. I'm thinking with effort it could be possible to have 2-3k life regen per second along with decent resists and vit. Definitely something to be looked into!
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
7165
Posts: 606
05/28/2012 01:04 PMPosted by JULES
^ I've always believed that the bigger slower hits want the %. As for a Demon hunter who shoots a million shots, maybe having the +lifeonhit and not % would be better.


Mathematically it's the same. 1.2(20)=1.2(10)+1.2(10)


Negative.

Life on hit scales upwards with APS, %LL remains constant.

For instance, 10 life per hit when you attack 5 times per second is a lot better than 10 life per hit when you attack 2 times per second.

Life leech, however, provides the same healing if dps remains constant when APS varies.
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Thanks Poach. Yeah, I pretty much just started NM and I'm seeing that the life on hit has lost its utility. I'm going to look into life steal or switch to a bow and shield and work on upping my dmg. I actually feel like I'm at square one again.
Edited by Rinkydink#1796 on 5/28/2012 1:20 PM PDT
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Posts: 25

Negative.

I was referring to the "big hits vs. little hits" thing. % will still give the same result on a 20-hit, as it will on 2 10-hits.
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Posts: 567
Also remember that as a demon hunter, its nearly impossible to maintain your full utility while kiting with a high AS. I never ever stand still and shoot something as fast as I can, but often run backwards shooting.

Long story short, in the realm of kiting the baddies out there, a slower 2H weapon is just farrrrrr more effective.

2H + Quiver >>>>> 1 H + Shield

If you need a shield as a demon hunter, you already !@#$ed up.
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Posts: 335
Hardcore brothers and sisters,

Thank you so much for your perspective on the matter. I think I see with clarity now.

  • Normal difficulty it seems very good but once your health pool gets very high say like 15k even with 100 health per hit you won't see much good.
  • If you get stunned or feared it does nothing.
  • If you are kiting it is doing nothing.
  • It is most effective with very fast rapid attacks. Once damage scales upwards percentage health leech is more potent.
  • .
    I think this is the full summary.
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    Hardcore brothers and sisters,

    Thank you so much for your perspective on the matter. I think I see with clarity now.

  • Normal difficulty it seems very good but once your health pool gets very high say like 15k even with 100 health per hit you won't see much good.
  • If you get stunned or feared it does nothing.
  • If you are kiting it is doing nothing.
  • It is most effective with very fast rapid attacks. Once damage scales upwards percentage health leech is more potent.
  • .
    I think this is the full summary.


    And one that I think most of the community can agree with. +1
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    I've been playing a life on hit monk all through normal and nightmare, but I was concerned about this very issue, glad I found the thread :)

    I would like to contribute something to the argument though, with a few stats

    currently, the life on hit attribute exists on Weapons and Amulets (perfect = 959 LoH), as well as rings (perfect = 479 LoH).

    Life steal on the other hand, only exists on weapons and mihgty belts, and caps out at 3% life steal per hit.

    Attack speed increases exist on Weapons (perfect +25% attack speed) as well as amulets, gloves, and rings (perfect +17%).

    assuming equal attack speeds (stacked to near perfection), and perfectly stacked life steal or LoH, the life stealer would be stealing, still, 6% per hit (dual weilding), while the LoH build would be gaining 959+959+959 (dual weild/amulet) + 479+479 (rings) = 3853 life per hit.

    In order for a life stealer to be gaining 3853 life per hit, they would have to be consistantly hitting for 64,216 damage (3853 is 3% of 127,833)

    I'm making no comments on the viability of actually stacking either of these stats that high, just figured I'd put the information out there so people can make their decisions more informed. However, one distinct advantage I see going for Life on Hit, is that it ignores enemy defenses, where as Life steal depends on you being able to hit enemies for alot.

    just some food for thought from the nerd department.
    Edited by Zephelle#1220 on 5/28/2012 9:19 PM PDT
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    I'm making no comments on the viability of actually stacking either of these stats that high, just figured I'd put the information out there so people can make their decisions more informed. However, one distinct advantage I see going for Life on Hit, is that it ignores enemy defenses, where as Life steal depends on you being able to hit enemies for alot.

    just some food for thought from the nerd department.


    The only problem I see with that, is by going dual wield, you lose (potentially) a lot of defense as well. Also, since life steal only exists on weapons and might belts, There's no reason not to have some +X/hit as well as some +X%/hit
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