Diablo® III

Does the Witchdoctor seem out of place?

90 Night Elf Hunter
8350
I'm just on my male WD again, and the more I look at him, the more I think he might be a melange of the WoW undead male walk/creep animation (the hunch and the speed/rhythm of the stride match) with a little bit of undead Vrykul hand-shake thrown in.

I'm ok with that. The greatest composers re-used the good bits of their pieces ;) I like the look (except the excessive pear shape lol). I think I would prefer the hand-shake to be more of a side-to-side 'hand-sway' - like the Zealot from Warhammer if anyone remembers o.O In battle it makes quite a hypnotic hand movement while holding a skull.
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once i got over how the witchdoctor looked and actually played him a bit, i ended up loving his skills. spiders, fireballs, zombie dogs, vampire bats? Awesome.
i think it is just /so/ different interms of back story, and visual style that makes him not really fit in. i would love to hear more of his back story, and culture.
also: he is nothing like necro... nothing at all. but i don't think necro should be brought back, or any of the classes from d2 for that matter. i would prefer to see new cultures from the land of sanctuary.

Edit: actually what whould be interesting is if WD didn't have a magic power source, and only used health, and make his damage attribute vitality. hmmm.
Edited by Robopanda333#1355 on 5/31/2012 4:01 PM PDT
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05/30/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Drizzle404
i asked the witch doctor for his opinion, and all he said was "oo ee, oo ah ah. ting, tang, wadda wadda bing bang"


ARISE CHICKEN
Edited by Mike#1883 on 5/31/2012 3:43 PM PDT
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Because it's only a fraction of what it was supposed to be. Cutting corners and cutting costs gets you the !@#$ty witchdoctor, the act 3-4 that feel like 1 act, the %^-*ty service, etc.
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Interesting!

Are you referring to how the witch doctor looks (physical appearance + armor options) or how the hero interacts with other characters in the game and progresses with the story arc? Or is it all about gameplay, and what spells the witch doctor has in its arsenal?

This is just anecdotal, but I've experimented with all five classes on various genders, too, and the witch doctor (female) is my absolute favorite in terms of how she engages with the main the characters and responds to conflict, so I'm curious about what just doesn't "click" for you.

/eagerly waiting your response


WD is my highest, and I don't care for the hunched over jittery look. I continued playing despite not caring for the looks. Now I am getting creeped out whenever a cutscene comes up and I can see him hold the snake mojo, but I can live with that.
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Community Manager
This thread is awesome. Thank you for all of the constructive feedback and very focused discussions.

I love you guys.
Edited by Lylirra on 5/31/2012 8:36 PM PDT
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I don't know if this will still be read. Right now the major problem I have is the pets. The pets on inferno can't take any hits (Champions, Boss or even regular mobs). So instead of being sorta the mastermind behind an army using slow recharging resources, we are gearing up and using passives so that we can spam hard hitting spells like Zombie chargers or Bats.

As a result of this, a good 15-20 % of spells and runes are effectively useless even if they are stylistically fun. While I do believe it's the difficulty that is limiting our playstyles and this isn't unique just to Witch Doctors, not being able to effectively use any pets is a major problem.
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90 Troll Priest
13005
I'll admit I haven't played WD very far, but I found her very slow to like in the beginning. I don't want to use the word undertuned, because that's not it, but something about early play just doesn't feel right.

Maybe because I can't feel very involved when the earliest skills seem to be step 1: throw spiders, step 2: wait. Every other class seems more hands on when you start that it's much easier to feel a part of the game play.

Lore wise, it does seem a little apart from the other classes. The other 4 are much more typical rpg fare - the big strong, the ranged, the magician, and the quick/rogueish. WD is out in left field as the guy with the creepy dogs who likes to throw spiders on people.
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I don't know if this will still be read. Right now the major problem I have is the pets. The pets on inferno can't take any hits (Champions, Boss or even regular mobs). So instead of being sorta the mastermind behind an army using slow recharging resources, we are gearing up and using passives so that we can spam hard hitting spells like Zombie chargers or Bats.

As a result of this, a good 15-20 % of spells and runes are effectively useless even if they are stylistically fun. While I do believe it's the difficulty that is limiting our playstyles and this isn't unique just to Witch Doctors, not being able to effectively use any pets is a major problem.


I can relate to this 100%. I gave up on the Dogs fairly early because I felt they didn't add anything to my game: they were bad tanks because they died quickly, they were very poor damage dealers, and I wasn't very interested in a Sacrifice build.
The Gargantuan was a good tank for a while, and in fact lasted me until Hell, but there he just takes a couple of hits and dies, and he has a 60s cooldown, so you can't spam summon. So, he wasn't worth the skill slot, so I removed him.

And yes, I felt compelled to resort to Bats as my damage dealer, they're just better than most other damage spells (along with zombie bears).

05/31/2012 01:59 PMPosted by ZaTango
I would love to use acid cloud with soul harvest but for that to be effective I have to be able to take more than 2 hits...which I can't.


You could always use Spirit Walk, sneak up on them, use Soul Harvest, get out and Acid Cloud.
Edited by Maka#2582 on 5/31/2012 9:04 PM PDT
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05/31/2012 09:05 PMPosted by EeqMCsquared
Hey know what would be cool? If we can have those character sounds like in D2. For example you could make you character say things like "Time to die!" "Thank you!" stuff like that. Really would give them personality.


You should spend some time hitting your number pad keys next time you're in-game.
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Yeah the witchdoctor seems out of place to me also. I think it is because I'm just so used to "normal" classes. Warrior = Barbarian, wizard = mage = sorcerer etc. Witchdoctor has never had a place in any game I have played in the past. I guess the real issue is that I am not used to the witchdoctor as a class. I see the value of adding a new "off the beaten path" class. It spurs the imagination and gets people thinking about what is possible rather then sticking to what feels normal.
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once i got over how the witchdoctor looked and actually played him a bit, i ended up loving his skills. spiders, fireballs, zombie dogs, vampire bats? Awesome.
i think it is just /so/ different interms of back story, and visual style that makes him not really fit in. i would love to hear more of his back story, and culture.
also: he is nothing like necro... nothing at all. but i don't think necro should be brought back, or any of the classes from d2 for that matter. i would prefer to see new cultures from the land of sanctuary.

Edit: actually what whould be interesting is if WD didn't have a magic power source, and only used health, and make his damage attribute vitality. hmmm.


Don't mean to derail this thread, but I thought I'd warn you. All of those cool skills you listed don't work well in Inferno mode, and WD basically becomes a dart kiter.
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The first time i started my witch doctor and heard his accent i immediately thought "this voice actor had no idea what he was recording for"

It is out of place for sure. There is no emotion in anything he says, it just sounds like a guy reading lines with a silly accent.
Edited by Murderin#1918 on 5/31/2012 9:43 PM PDT
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WALL OF TEXT INC

This seems as good a place as any to post.
I am currently a level 60 WD in Act 3 Inferno.
Personal feelings:
I love this character. I played the Necromancer for many years back in Diablo 2 and I chose the WD because of the similarities in uniqueness compared to the other playable characters. I'm into odd $@#@, what can I say?

Leveling to 60:
I have a small tribe of friends that I run with. One a barbarian, one a wizard, one a demon hunter, and one a monk. As I was leveling I felt more like a controller and off-tank than anything else. The damage I was doing did not compare to those I ran with. I could barely use any of my high mana skills which were only barely moderately better because I simply ran out of mana too fast which left me vulnerable and unable to perform CC + re-summon pets as the dogs died commonly. Later into late nightmare/early hell, I simply did away with the dogs and relied on just my gargantuan for a pet. It just was not worth the skill slot for my dogs to absorb a few hits and die while doing almost no damage (9% weapon damage x3 if each dog focus fires = 27% weapon damage per pack strike; for those who do not play Witch Doctor). What was very disappointing was that I had no reason to use haunt, spirit barage, sacrifice, firebats, and zombie charger.

Reasons:
Haunt - High mana cost for an ability you spam on each individual mob. Damage is too slow. If I ran with anyone, the mana cost would be wasted because the mobs simply died and not by me. Locus Swarm is easily better. Only somewhat useful on boss fights for hit and run tactics while keeping dps up on them (plus you don't have to run up to them like you would locus swarm.)

Spirit Barrage - I really wanted to like this ability. I can find no use for it whatsoever. It uses WAY too much mana for the damage. Splinters for Dart does 180% weapon damage for almost no mana. This ability uses 190? mana max level for 10% more weapon damage. (can be runed for mana return but even with inferno gear + mana regen on weapon, offhand and helm it still drains very quickly).
Even the runes are of little use. Well of souls seems to send spirits in random directions, rarely ever hitting a far away target. The target needs to be close. Manitou has the very same issue. I tested it on some mobs in a lower difficulty. Very little damage in addition for the requirement for the mob to be just a few yards in front of you. Phantasm is the very same issue. Low aoe damage for a ton of mana.

Sacrfice - The idea is cool. The requirement of 2 skill slots and a minute cooldown is not. A well placed Pile On does about the same damage with 1 skill slot and 25 second cooldown.

Firebats - Another close range issue and huge mana drain. The main issue here is the mana drain. If I use this on a pack of mobs, I'm sure to be out of mana by the time I'm done due to the range plus mana cost. If I am to use this for a more productive dps increase on an elite, I am in a dangerous position as I have to be close to use most of the runes of this abilitiy. Dire Bats is the only useful rune but, again, the mana cost for damage and pathing of the bat is too narrow and too high a cost.

Zombie Charger - SAME issue as the others. The need to be very close plus high mana cost makes it useless. In a pack of mobs, you're not going to kill anything with just 1 of these in nightmare+. You will need a few which would leave you mana-less. The close range puts you in danger again. The Explosive Beast idea is ideal all around due to the range increase and damage increase but the damage is poor for the mana cost which drains you very very quickly. Zombie Bears is the issue x10. You do a TON of damage but you put yourself in very great danger. Even to use it regularly end game, you need to have 4 abilities on cd at all times OR use Big Bad Voodoo for mana regen... or both for optimal up time. You essentially dedicate your whole skill set to supporting just Zombie Bears. Very boring build and very dangerous in Inferno.

What I did use while leveling:
Firebomb - Acid Cloud - Locus Swarm for AOE
Poison Dart for Boss and Single Target fights
Hex, Grasp of the Dead, Mass Confusion for CC
Spirit Walk for Defense
Not all in one skill set mind you.

Firebomb in general just does lousy aoe damage. I couldn't wait to use it... and then couldn't wait to find something better. The Wizard and Demon Hunter destroy the aoe category with minimal effort while doing WAY more than 85% weapon damage. I can spam it, sure... but by then the mobs are dead from the up front burst damage of those classes. I have to set up locus swarm, acid cloud, and spam Firebomb to do decent damage while draining my slow regen mana down to almost nothing leaving little room to do anything else. It is just disappointing. Wizards and Demon Hunters regen very quickly, being ready to burst from fight to fight.

Inferno -> Inferno farming
WD lacks in the exciting department for inferno. I'm stuck using Splinters as my main source of damage while having almost all my skill sets being taken up by CC. I don't mind so much but the problem is that I really have nothing else to use OTHER than splinters. Nothing works as good as 3 darts being spit into someones face. I hate it. I really do. Haunt is a joke. Spirit Barrage is a joke for reasons above. Our only damage is an ability that does 180% weapon damage with 3 darts + cc assist damage if any. I wont even go into what DH offer because most know it's much more than that. I am the CC in the group and I can live with that but I really want my abilities to be more exciting. To be useful. I can't even use my pets anymore because they just die too fast and the CD is a joke at that point. So I am a pet less pet class who is forced to kite and cc to get stuff done. Kiting is expected in inferno but with only splinters it gets old very fast.

I think I said most of what I wanted to say. I'm tired and I'm passionate about the class so I fought to post as much as possible. Hopefully it helps blizzard gain a different perspective.
Edited by Magus#1604 on 5/31/2012 9:55 PM PDT
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