Diablo® III

Does the Witchdoctor seem out of place?

06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
I think you'd have less hating on the WD, in general, if our zombie dogs and gargantuan didn't require fairly specific and fairly rigid gearing requirements to be viable.


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


dont stop there. scale them with our resists and armor and dodge too

... im very surprised they already didnt scale with out stats... thats like the basic of basics as far as pets go
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100 Night Elf Hunter
21410
Posts: 9,902
If the spider queen and Toad of Hugeness could have more viability, i would be oh so happy. Right now, they do very low dmg, and compared to the other spells in our aresenal that give us survival, it's just not worth it.

My poor big toad is forever alone. :*(
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Did anyone play this game before it was released? Those two or three dudes in the inferno "you will die" video... were they just like the laziest pot head players ever? Why the hell do you know nothing about any of the classes and their gameplay????
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Posts: 194
06/01/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Adrenaline


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Making them scale with vitality is a horrible idea with the state of Inferno the way it is. The WD gets two shot (SV) in 99% of most cases, so stacking vitality over intellect is not a good idea.

If there is a decision to scale them with a stat, make them scale with the stat that matters the most, intellect.


Yeah, that's the problem with pets. I'm sort of bummed you guys didn't anticipate this after D2. In D2, in Hell Mode, Necro's couldn't really use pets as they would all get one-shotted and most necros became subpar sorc's with bone spirit and corpse explosion.
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I have a very low lvl WD, I can't believe I chose to play the 2 classes that have the hardest time right now haha (barb/wd) I like a challenge though :) and its more satisfying creating a "less tanky" class go through difficult levels with ease after gear hunting and careful gameplay imho then blowing through Inferno with a DH or Wizard.

Here's to the guys/gals who see their struggles later on towards Inferno but keep pushing forward regardless!
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06/01/2012 10:33 AMPosted by RamboRomulos
If you give us skill points to allocate, then we can make the pets tougher.


OR, give the pets skill trees (with defensive passives) similar to those of our followers.
Edited by armannd#2710 on 6/1/2012 10:56 AM PDT
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Posts: 88
06/01/2012 10:50 AMPosted by armannd
OR, give the pets skill trees similar to those of our followers.


They can use all the skills they want and it wouldn't help their survivability - this would need to be addressed separately.
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My 2nd Char is definitely going to be the WD. Looks like a wildly different and fun class.
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06/01/2012 10:52 AMPosted by TruShowKilla
They can use all the skills they want and it wouldn't help their survivability - this would need to be addressed separately.


Not if the skills are passive increases to HP and defense for example. And you'd have to choose between the two. Active skills would conflict with the summon runes. Passives wouldn't.
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While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Is there any hope of getting the +life on hit to effect the pets with the fierce loyalty passive like it used to before it was patched out? Or at least pass the healing that the player recieves from it to the pets?
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
I think you'd have less hating on the WD, in general, if our zombie dogs and gargantuan didn't require fairly specific and fairly rigid gearing requirements to be viable.


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


I think scaling with Vitality is a very good buff to start. I do have one question. How come Monk and Demon Hunter's pets don't have cool-down. Monk's pet seems pretty strong just by himself and it has no cool-down while WD's two pets have 60s cool down?

If Zombie Dog's cool down is to balance the skill Sacrifice, can't you add cool down to Sacrifice instead and reduce Dog/Garg's cool down?
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06/01/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Adrenaline


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Making them scale with vitality is a horrible idea with the state of Inferno the way it is. The WD gets two shot (SV) in 99% of most cases, so stacking vitality over intellect is not a good idea.

If there is a decision to scale them with a stat, make them scale with the stat that matters the most, intellect.


What if you guys made it so that the dogs took 100% of the Vitality of the WD and split it between each dog! Then make it so that when the life Bar of the dogs Drops to a certain level it removes one dog, then when it drops again another dog it removed. The last thing you could do is every time a dog is removed from the pack re-distribute the Vitality amongst the dogs!
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I love my WD, and very much looking forward to some needed improvements - thanks for the info!
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My concern is MONK allies. They also die instantaeously throughout all of inferno. The earth ally is supposed to give you an extra 10% health, however if he dies right at the start of a battle, you recast him, and you get that extra 10% back - however that extra 10% is now empty, he dies again, and you're screwed. Your offtank with a taunt can't even survive one hit to even make him useable.
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so you guys were testing internally for that long, with a strike team and whatever, and you didnt come across witch doctor pet survivability? what an EXTREME lack of insight
so i guess you guys were all playing demon hunters and wizards then :P
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06/01/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Adrenaline


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Making them scale with vitality is a horrible idea with the state of Inferno the way it is. The WD gets two shot (SV) in 99% of most cases, so stacking vitality over intellect is not a good idea.

If there is a decision to scale them with a stat, make them scale with the stat that matters the most, intellect.


Completely agree. Right now, gearing for vitality in order to have some "meh" tanks (because they're meant to die, we get it), is not such a good idea. Our DPS after the first act, when zombie bears become useless (except on a very specific fight on act4), seems low already, at least when comparing it to what DH/Wiz can do. So IMO all that will be different is that you can pretend to be a tank (gearing for vitality/thorns gear for your pets) and never be able to hold your ground like a barbarian/monk can (because pets are not meant to be as powerful as a class), OR you can do some damage and act as full support on you group, so i'm guessing most WDs will just stick to what they got.

Having pets scale with our main DPS stat sounds like a much better solution: pets become fairly useful again and we don't sacrifice our already low DPS for them.
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06/01/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Stryker
What if you guys made it so that the dogs took 100% of the Vitality of the WD and split it between each dog!


Given that mobs in act 3 and 4 inferno can hit for over 80k and WHs rarely have over 50k HP, all 3 of your dogs would die in 1 hit.
Edited by armannd#2710 on 6/1/2012 11:08 AM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
12330
Posts: 18
I've got a lvl 55 WD currently in Act 3 hell, I also hace a lvl 60 barb who has a pretty easy time with hell. The WD is still my favorite class, the problems I'm seeing with him is how he can become dependant on poison dart. My favorite primary spell is actually Firebomb, but its damage is to low to be able to do considerable damage to an elite, the runes it have dont really help with that problem either. The frogs spell I don't use, not because I don't like them, because they're unreliable. They cost far to much mana to use as a primary spell and alternate with your powerfull secondaries and even more powerfull terror, decay, defensive and voodoo spells and the regular version the spell with its 4 variants don't have good aim for people that are infront of you. Its a close range "shotgun" style spell that doesn't hit the mark.

His crowd control spell though are probbably the strongest i've seen. Horrify can save you from terrible situations and confuse is such a strong spell, since the enemies hit for so much, that when you use it, a couple of enemies are gonna bash them selves dead.

All that aside, I can still relate to how the WD somehow feel... "off". My barbarian's runes and abilities all have a purpose with a certain strategy among his builds. But the witch doctor's Hex ability that turns my into a chicken and blow up for 215% weapon damge and place it on cooldown doesn't seem like a viable option versus Hedged Magic or Jinx. Most of the runes on his spells just don't cut it. (IMO, his voodoo spells are the exception save a few like the boogie man rune on big bad voodoo).
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You could just make it an arbitrary duration, and make them invulnerable.

I don't know what the cooldown is, but say the cooldown is 12 seconds: make the summon a 6 second duration. You could have them up exactly half the time, if you cast it every time it's cooled, and won't have to worry about how long they'll stick around. Could make the gameplay for WD much more predictable, without ruining the basic rotation.
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