Diablo® III

Does the Witchdoctor seem out of place?

Interesting!

Are you referring to how the witch doctor looks (physical appearance + armor options) or how the hero interacts with other characters in the game and progresses with the story arc? Or is it all about gameplay, and what spells the witch doctor has in its arsenal?

This is just anecdotal, but I've experimented with all five classes on various genders, too, and the witch doctor (female) is my absolute favorite in terms of how she engages with the main the characters and responds to conflict, so I'm curious about what just doesn't "click" for you.

/eagerly waiting your response


Spells:
most spells don't feel very useful and those that do feel useful have very long cool downs so the spell because less useful.

example: grasp of the dead - basically a snare... but it has a longish cool down (the duration of the snare) when demon hunters can throw 3-4 caltrops (also a snare) with no cool down though discipline regenerates more slowly.
conclusion: Caltrops feels useful, grasp of the dead feels nearly useless

I find some of the best spells either shave a long casting time, a long cool down, or just such a short range that you need to get close to hit anything.

summons:
-they die too quickly
-cool downs are too long (cool downs here actually don't make too much sense conceptually)
-nearly useless, and not worth the slot on the hot bar

Armour:
-makes the witch doctor look out of place even more so then the skills do.
-caster class with a melee class specific weapon. you run out of mana and you will find your self running into melee range unless you hold shift down.

class specific weapons:
Demon hunters get bows and crossbows - this keeps them out of melee range
wizards get wands - run out of arcane power and they stay out of melee range
witch doctors get daggers - run out of mana you run into melee range.

--> witch doctors class specific weapon isn't ranged but they play like a ranged class <--

Overall for a class that was meant to replace the necromancer from Diablo II (which was my favourite class there) It plays nothing like it and I do not like the feel or aesthetics of the witch doctor and do not feel it is a good replacement for the necromancer. I would have rather seen the necromancer come back really.

Oh and while I'm talking about aesthetics, please please please take the heels off the female demon hunters boots!!!
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06/01/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Adrenaline
If there is a decision to scale them with a stat, make them scale with the stat that matters the most, intellect.


But their damage already scales with intellect, so having their health scale with vitality (which every class, including WD, already buffs) makes sense.

Also, to everyone complaining about mana regeneration speed, the only time my WD uses any significant amount of mana is fighting bosses, where I change my build to include a mana-regenerating skill. I haven't used toads much, but the other 3 primaries have a mana cost that has never been noticeable to me.
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We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


My 10 cents.....

scaled to vitality alone will not fix it, they need a portion of the resists and armor as well. Um, grab a wow hunter developer and revisit the big pet patch where pets finally became functional... might get some good ideas from that (however the end result was that good pets were borderline immortal, so you cannot go that far if you want them to die sometimes?)

Some of the things that could really help: Make the pets immune to puddle type damage. Have them ignore the treasure goblins. Give them distinct roles (dogs for dps, garg for tank seems reasonable?).

A big issue is the exploding dogs. While very powerful, 2 runes for a once in a while skill is useless. I would remove the skill --- add it as a rune to the dogs so that when they die, they blow up. It makes no sense to have 2 skills to perform one attack, no matter how powerful, in a game with 6 skills. Or, as an alternative, have the exploding dogs rune give the WD a very high chance to summon a dog whenever any enemy dies, say a 25% chance. I dunno, you guys are more creative than I am but something needs work in that area, and its a good opportunity to lose the dogs skill and add a skill in that balances the class a bit...
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc.


this seems to be basically whats wrong with end game. WD is a pet based class but you didnt even notice that the pets insta-die in "later difficulties"? what the hell were you doing when you play tested? was it just the WD you dropped the ball on or was it , much more likely, EVERY class was tested to about nightmare difficulty, given the blizz stamp of good enough, then decided that all that was required to make later difficulties of a repeated story line was to adjust the math. surprise surprise it didnt work...
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Posts: 60
I like the way the witch doctor makes creepy yells when he casts stuff.
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After playing a little bit of every class, I have found that the Witchdoctor seems really out of place in this game, as if he doesn't belong at allAnyone else feel this way?Interesting! Are you referring to how the witch doctor looks (physical appearance + armor options) or how the hero interacts with other characters in the game and progresses with the story arc? Or is it all about gameplay, and what spells the witch doctor has in its arsenal?This is just anecdotal, but I've experimented with all five classes on various genders, too, and the witch doctor (female) is my absolute favorite in terms of how she engages with the main the characters and responds to conflict, so I'm curious about what just doesn't "click" for you./eagerly waiting your response


Honestly, nothing struck me as odd about the WD until I entered the very gates of Heaven. Walking around with my zombie hoarde seemed suddenly out of place. Otherwise, I very much enjoy the character :)
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
I think you'd have less hating on the WD, in general, if our zombie dogs and gargantuan didn't require fairly specific and fairly rigid gearing requirements to be viable.


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


I appreciate your concern for a clunky mechanic. Scaling with Vitality alone may not be the solution (unless we are looking at 200-400% scaling). It might be worth considering to add a scaling defensive bonus per difficulty (similar to what happens with damage). Each difficulty adds a progressively increasing buff.

In the following example, assuming DR is Damage Reduction and AR is All Resists: 10%DR/25AR in Nightmare, 20%DR/50AR in Hell, 40%/100AR in Inferno.

I am just blowing out theoretical numbers, but I am doing so to get the example across. With a bonus that is automatically activated for all characters based on difficulty, it would help prevent obscenely high powered pets in lower difficulties.

-Hate
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


I am curious, since I can't find any info on this. Besides damage... What DOES scale with your pets?

Does their HP go up as you level at least? Do they get your armor/resists/etc?

Or is all it is what the tooltip says (15% damage) and they remain at the same health/armor/etc forever?
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The pet changes will only matter if they "cure the spikiness" of damage in inferno. Without that change, pets will still die too too fast.


Coming in patch 1.0.3.
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05/30/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Drizzle404
i asked the witch doctor for his opinion, and all he said was "oo ee, oo ah ah. ting, tang, wadda wadda bing bang"


Yes

05/30/2012 04:15 PMPosted by PVStar
Is it because he's black?


and YES!!

haha those got me rolling!!!
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i love the spirit skill theme...but hate the way he looks, talks, yells when casts, and moves -.- oh yeah and the twiching in his hand
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Posts: 203
I find it ridiculous that people in this thread are suggesting that WD pets scale on things they already scale on.

They already scale with STr, Dex, Armor, Dodge, physical resistance, thorns, and can proc on-hit effects (burning dogs' aoe procs on-hits as well, generating a ton of hits). Players are still testing other defensive stats.

Note that this is not a comment on balance, but a recommendation that the people commenting on balance understand the dogs before they comment.

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271500086?page=1
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WD's pets need a separate skill tree, much like the followers have. But instead of a point based system it should be based on Defensive/Offensive abilities.

I agree that the pets are dying way to often. even if they scale them with the player on a more generous % and on a main stat, I still don't think that will be enough.

Its why I think they should add that additional element to the WD, the Pet skill Tree.

And depending on what skill is/was chosen will determine what stat and what % of that stat is scaled.
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I always thought the WD should rely on summons to tank while he does damage from behind.
In my mind he should have his summons take the damage for him and help him kite, while he's staying behind doing damage with his spells.

I pictured the gargantuan, for instance, as an epic tank that taunts enemies, takes damage and maybe even boosts some defense mechanisms on the WD himself.

As to "why would a WD get a dedicated tank while other ranged classes don't", I have this thought:
Keeping a summon tanky could be an active thing. Maybe it's not enough to just summon the thing, maybe you gotta maintain it somehow...
Edited by Ravenok#1555 on 6/1/2012 12:23 PM PDT
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I was so tempted to quit Witch Doctor until I read that pets were getting buffed. It's so incredibly frustrating to play this gimped version of a Demon hunter in inferno right now.
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85 Troll Mage
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Posts: 21
06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


This would be an excellent fix. Let my garg take 2-3 hits at least, and not get one shotted by everything in inferno.

In my opinion, the Gargantuan should be able to tank an elite mob in inferno for at least a few seconds. Otherwise, take out pets from the game, because they really are utterly useless in inferno.
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06/01/2012 12:13 PMPosted by Gremdavel
If there is a decision to scale them with a stat, make them scale with the stat that matters the most, intellect.


But their damage already scales with intellect, so having their health scale with vitality (which every class, including WD, already buffs) makes sense.

Also, to everyone complaining about mana regeneration speed, the only time my WD uses any significant amount of mana is fighting bosses, where I change my build to include a mana-regenerating skill. I haven't used toads much, but the other 3 primaries have a mana cost that has never been noticeable to me.


ur spec prolly doesnt have a mana nuke, and ur prolly not in inferno where you actually hafta use the nuke enough times to make u go oom several times over
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And please also consider improving Fierce Loyalty and Zombie Handler.

Fierce Loyalty

It allows WD's pets to receive 100% Thorn and 100% Life Regeneration. It sounds awesome on paper except that Thorn damage can only reflect melee physical damage and monsters aren't exactly hitting fast (they hit hard!). Even if you stack up very high, the returned damage is still quite low to be an effective Thorn-summoner build unless Thorn damage is based on % rather than a fixed value. Please increase Thorn damage in general or improve Fierce Loyalty to 150-200% returned on Pets only.

And if possible, please include On Hit +Life in Fierce Loyalty so pets can leech more.

Zombie Handler

It improves Zombie Dog by giving you one more but it doesn't really add anything offensively for Gargantuan. I looked at Monk's pet and its base damage is 40% weapon damage while Garg only gets 25% AND with 60s cool-down period? Is Monk the summon-class or Witch Doctor? :P It should be reversed if you ask me. Other classes' pets should have cool-down while WD's shouldn't.

Other balance issues:

Gargantuan

Rune - Humongoid seems underpowered because it only increases damage up to 32% and the cone affect is smaller than Big Stinker. Big Stinker addes 15% aoe weapon damage on top of Gargantuan's base 25% damage and that's 40%. Why would anyone use Humongoid's 32% with less aoe potential (Unless Pets benefit from attack speed and critical chance?). Big Stinker's aoe damage is a bit less but it's much wider.

Splinter Dart VS Flaming Dart

We've been trying to figure out the design goal of Flaming Dart but we just can't understand it. Splinter does 60% x 3 for 180% total while Flaming does one 160%. Both have the same casting speed. Splinter also has the potential to proc more effects due to 3 darts. Shouldn't the damage % be reversed or at least equal in value?

Splinter can do 160% but has 3x the chance to procs.
Flaming can do 180% but has less chance to proc

This makes more sense to me than Splinter 180% and Flaming 160%.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 6/1/2012 12:40 PM PDT
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