Diablo® III

Does the Witchdoctor seem out of place?

06/01/2012 12:55 PMPosted by Gilthas
We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Its nice to know that pets are being looked at, but I think this feature should have been there from the start.


It should have been here but it wasn't sadly. They should scale with each difficulty as they did in D2. If they do it sure as hell doesn't seem like it. Bustin out the blowpipe in 3. 2. 1.
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06/01/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Kayzar
One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


I am curious, since I can't find any info on this. Besides damage... What DOES scale with your pets?

Does their HP go up as you level at least? Do they get your armor/resists/etc?

Or is all it is what the tooltip says (15% damage) and they remain at the same health/armor/etc forever?


Let me rephrase: Can we get the actual tool-tips to say what scales with the pets, rather than just some other gamers doing an unofficial "test" on what does?
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Weak pets and too many close range skills for a class that doesn't feel designed to be viable at close range seem to be the standout problems for me so far.


I can agree with this! There is no secret that so many "successful" Inferno builds are all using long range spells like Direbats or Zombie Bear.

I actually enjoy using Well of Souls (semi-close range for all 3 souls to hit) but I am also only in Hell Act 1. If things are killing me in one hit most of the time, there is no way I'll use Well of Souls or any closer range attacks like Frog, Cloud of Bats and Manitou. Inferno difficulty, from what I've read, basically forces you to use very long range and kite. Some WDs say they don't even use Soul Harvest in inferno due to the pbaoe and risk involved.

However, I do feel that once pets are surviving well in Inferno with specific equipment setup, you should have some time to use closer range spells. At the current state, it's just not worth it to go in.
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
I think you'd have less hating on the WD, in general, if our zombie dogs and gargantuan didn't require fairly specific and fairly rigid gearing requirements to be viable.


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


bad plan, it should be a dificult based, level based scale, and if using any status use inteligence for better attack rating, defense/protection and life steal.
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06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
I think you'd have less hating on the WD, in general, if our zombie dogs and gargantuan didn't require fairly specific and fairly rigid gearing requirements to be viable.


While the intent is for witch doctors to re-summon Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan fairly often, we agree that pets aren't living long enough in higher difficulty levels. Of course, the harder difficulties are supposed to be more challenging, but we don't think it's fun gameplay to cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly, wait for the cooldown to reset, re-cast Zombie Dogs, watch them die almost instantly...etc. And this is happening even when players are wearing pretty reasonable gear.

We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


As a Inferno Witch Doctor almost done with act 2 I have to say there are other things that seem out of place for inferno witch doctors. One thing is the reliance on soul harvest/spirit walk and specifically with spirit walk as it is our only avenue to avoid damage and escape out of situations where we will die incredibly quickly. Is there any talks about better mana allocation or changing some of the defensive abilities like horrify to have less cool down?

Also when is the fetish summon/synergy bug being fixed?
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Posts: 425
06/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Lylirra
We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Thanks for addressing this. Summons are literally a key feature from the witch doctor. Go to http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/ and it's the first. Yet they are not viable.

The problem I see with making them scale from vitality is that it's not intuitive. You end up having tanky summons and being tanky yourself. Intuitively, you want the mobs to tank while you are the one doing the damage.

So, my proposition is:
a) Make summons scale with intelligence (so you end up with tanky summons and a glass cannon witch doctor). This won't make summons OP if you are still required to have the passives which benefit summons to make them viable.

b) Buff certain passives like jungle fortitude (increase the damage absorption to summons), fierce loyalty (give summons bonus HP form int or vit), zombie handler, circle of life (make it drastically reduce summon CD), etc.
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97 Dwarf Warrior
4400
Posts: 23
Another very aggravating problem with the Witch Doctor is that end-game you either build low-mana + low-cooldown (Dart/Firebomb) or you go heavy cooldowns + zombie bears/dire bats (with regen passive).

All the other +-100 mana spells feel awful. Mana regen too slow for them to be reliable source of damage. Early levels it's almost fine, cause you have good tanks and you can just stay back and take your time.
Edited by fuzzybOotz#1214 on 6/1/2012 1:15 PM PDT
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I'm maining a WD and I'm going to have to say I disagree with the OP. Even running Inferno (solo or grouped) I don't have a problem using Gargantuan and having him live as long as I expect him to live there. Dogs ARE useless in later hell and on though. I also tend to run a little different build than I've seen talked about on the forums. It would make a bit more sense to have them scale with your stats though. Perhaps even all of them (i.e. DEX gives a dodge chance , STR gives armor, INT is damage and VIT gives HP). That way you could have summons that fit your play style and itemization that don't die instantly...
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06/01/2012 01:16 PMPosted by LordFrodo
I'm maining a WD and I'm going to have to say I disagree with the OP. Even running Inferno (solo or grouped) I don't have a problem using Gargantuan and having him live as long as I expect him to live there. Dogs ARE useless in later hell and on though. I also tend to run a little different build than I've seen talked about on the forums. It would make a bit more sense to have them scale with your stats though. Perhaps even all of them (i.e. DEX gives a dodge chance , STR gives armor, INT is damage and VIT gives HP). That way you could have summons that fit your play style and itemization that don't die instantly...


Wait until inferno when your garg gets 1 shot by most mobs
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Haven't played a WD extensively mind you, but from what I have played, I think the "role" of the WD is to be a damage over time spellcaster.

Barbarian: Tank
Monk: Melee dps
Demon Hunter: Ranged / Rogue dps
Sorc: Caster dps
Witch Doctor: pets / dots / caster dps

It just seems that the spells for the WD are lackluster. I can't imagine playing in hell or inferno.

The things I would do to make the WD a bit better:

WD Pets get their stats from the WD, ie:
-- Intellegence: Primary DPS And Resists
-- Dexterity: Block / Crit rates
-- Vitality: Health
-- Strength: Secondary damage / Armor
-- Resists: All the same

Also, his/her DOT spells need to be beefed up in terms of the damage. Make her blowdart spell an actual poison (upfront damage: low, ticks a poison / dot that grows exponentially over time)

The spiders.. I would make more of a poison cloud effect instead... I could go on, but like I said, I haven't played extensively enough to know all the spells.. but you get what I'm saying, right?
Edited by Kurogami#1273 on 6/1/2012 1:28 PM PDT
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I think we will see this as a reacurring game mechanic problem, and you if you could add skill points to say zombie dogs or whatever those WD kids are summoning these days, it would improve all stats and damage, not just vit. How would that not fix the problem. I have a 60 Wizard and 60 monk, and I see this a lot "How much better would this be If I could add skill points to this skill... I like this skill, i wish i could maybe create a build, not just pretend i have created a build, when in reality its not even the same playing field.

Its a little off topic but In an interview buddy was saying "well, you just whent online and researched your build, like everyone else does.. it wasnt a creative, user based, build, you were just cutting and pasting the same character everyone else had.. all I can say is Smiter, Freezadin, Hammerdin, MF orb Sorc, Javazon, D2 had the viable build already going for it. All Blizz did was put as little effort into their game mechanics as possible, exaplain that everyone just rolled the same build anyways and then had a little inside joke about it.. and then essentialy cut out the middle man, making EVERYONE HAVE THE SAME BUILD just with bad game mechanics and skills that dont scale. Its like being boxed into a nightmare. If my Bone Necro could never add points into anything bone related, just static stats and skills that barely scale, not only could he not be considered a BONE necro, but I would have a horrible time playing him.

Add vit to your dogs lol... not only is your game mechanics faulty as hell, but Ive heard better cover stories comming from an 8 year old.
Edited by Chris#12751 on 6/1/2012 1:59 PM PDT
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To those who say that Pets should scale with Intelligence.......they already do. Intelligence provides pets with increased damage and increased resistances, much like it provides the Witch Doctor himself with these stats.

Vitality is currently the only primary stat that does not help pets. If vitality increased pet HP, it would go a long way towards contributing to pet survivability.

The pets stats should mirror the Witch Doctor's. You shouldn't be able to have tanky pets and be a glass cannon. That just screams IMBA. The pets are an extension of your character, not your primary means of survivability. If you want tanky pets, you yourself should be tanky.
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Posts: 425
06/01/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Kayzar
Let me rephrase: Can we get the actual tool-tips to say what scales with the pets, rather than just some other gamers doing an unofficial "test" on what does?


Yeah, please :S
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24 Dwarf Hunter
7645
Posts: 1,318
Yeah i made a post on this topic.

In the opening scenes of the game as the Witch doctor makes his way toward New Tristram he would have been riddled with crossbow bolts from the Anglo-saxon guards near the front gate.
He would have been mistaken for a zombie or a demon summoner.

Diablo 3 greatest selling pc game of all time, does'nt means it's good it just riding a on a name.

This company needs to decide it future now. Kung fu panda wow cannot save it.
Edited by Zofo#1509 on 6/1/2012 1:52 PM PDT
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06/01/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Xeno
I'm maining a WD and I'm going to have to say I disagree with the OP. Even running Inferno (solo or grouped) I don't have a problem using Gargantuan and having him live as long as I expect him to live there.


Wait until inferno when your garg gets 1 shot by most mobs


Wut?

To those who say that Pets should scale with Intelligence.......they already do. Intelligence provides pets with increased damage and increased resistances, much like it provides the Witch Doctor himself with these stats.

Vitality is currently the only primary stat that does not help pets. If vitality increased pet HP, it would go a long way towards contributing to pet survivability.

The pets stats should mirror the Witch Doctor's. You shouldn't be able to have tanky pets and be a glass cannon. That just screams IMBA. The pets are an extension of your character, not your primary means of survivability. If you want tanky pets, you yourself should be tanky.


At first you start out missing the point... and then you finish getting it. I'm confused? Int does NOT already scale with the pets in the way people are suggesting, so stop saying it does. Your post just should have had the last paragraph and that's it.
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i was able to solo hell diablo with a wd and my Gargantuan actually made the killing blow (i was stuck in cage). Inferno act 1 he was still fine. But act 2 he was just totally useless, i can survive 2 or 3 shots but he was just 1 shot. At moment i'm still trying out various builds for act 2 inferno but it is pretty hard without a tank.
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At first you start out missing the point... and then you finish getting it. I'm confused? Int does NOT already scale with the pets in the way people are suggesting, so stop saying it does. Your post just should have had the last paragraph and that's it.


Plenty of people did phrase their posts as if pets do not scale with intelligence in any way, shape or form.
Edited by FinalDoorman#1193 on 6/1/2012 2:20 PM PDT
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Posts: 478
06/01/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Burn
We're looking into ways to improve witch doctor pet survivability at later levels, but we don't have any clear plans to share just yet. One thing we're considering, though, is having pets scale with your Vitality (which they currently do not do).


Thanks for addressing this. Summons are literally a key feature from the witch doctor. Go to http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/ and it's the first. Yet they are not viable.

The problem I see with making them scale from vitality is that it's not intuitive. You end up having tanky summons and being tanky yourself. Intuitively, you want the mobs to tank while you are the one doing the damage.

So, my proposition is:
a) Make summons scale with intelligence (so you end up with tanky summons and a glass cannon witch doctor). This won't make summons OP if you are still required to have the passives which benefit summons to make them viable.

b) Buff certain passives like jungle fortitude (increase the damage absorption to summons), fierce loyalty (give summons bonus HP form int or vit), zombie handler, circle of life (make it drastically reduce summon CD), etc.


I agree that having pets scale with Int sounds like a much better idea than Vit.
I really hope pet changes make it into 1.03, I'm getting tired of running around spamming darts on inferno and never getting to use my pets unless I'm running friends through stuff as they level : /
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Posts: 214
wow, there's been a blue comment on WD....has there been one on Monks yet? seriously
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