Diablo® III

They need to buff dual weilding

There is just no reason to do it.
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First you stated that they need to buff it, and then you state:

05/30/2012 09:03 PMPosted by melonbread
There is just no reason to do it.


I'm confused
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I think he meant, buff dual wielding because there is no reason to dual wield at the moment
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ya they show DH dualing handcrosses but its totally useless as the dmg is lowered vs just 1 handcross+quiver
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I dual wield, and it's much higher DPS then any of the quivers I had access to. That's not to mention the opening burst is better as well.
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You can shoot twice the amount of attacks in comparison to a two handed crossbow. Regardless of sheer numbers, dual wielding feels much more flexible.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9590
05/30/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Souseiseki
You can shoot twice the amount of attacks in comparison to a two handed crossbow. Regardless of sheer numbers, dual wielding feels much more flexible.


Actually this is not how DWing is handled in terms of mechanics...I did not do extensive math research around it but last I DWed, it felt roughly like the equivalent of a 15% haste bonus to the average dps of the 2 weapon. Meaning unless your 2 hand-xbows have the exact same dps, any +15% magic quiver will be better than dual wielding.

For all I care, dual wielding still has one very strong purpose if you play a non glass-cannon build. You can stack high values of +life on hit on both weapons and "almost" tank...probably tank some inferno mortars...
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05/31/2012 12:24 AMPosted by Keau
You can shoot twice the amount of attacks in comparison to a two handed crossbow. Regardless of sheer numbers, dual wielding feels much more flexible.


Actually this is not how DWing is handled in terms of mechanics...I did not do extensive math research around it but last I DWed, it felt roughly like the equivalent of a 15% haste bonus to the average dps of the 2 weapon. Meaning unless your 2 hand-xbows have the exact same dps, any +15% magic quiver will be better than dual wielding.

For all I care, dual wielding still has one very strong purpose if you play a non glass-cannon build. You can stack high values of +life on hit on both weapons and "almost" tank...probably tank some inferno mortars...


Duel wielding is awesome for glass cannon builds. And quivers are only worth it if it has better stats then your 2nd crossbow.
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How much do you guys spend on your rare handbows with life on hit

I would still like to have my weapon do 1000dps+ but also not cost 30mil.
Edited by melonbread#1824 on 5/31/2012 1:23 AM PDT
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Perfect 1 hand combo would be this in both hands.

800+ dmg (Total) *Just estimating here, make up ur own numbers*
200+dex
Crit Dmg 50+
Socket

I feel like these are the only stats that you could use on a 1 hander to make it viable and comparable to a crossbow with the whole "Sharp Shooter" build.

You could of-course put a Emerald gem in the socket with the higher crit dmg

Having something like this in each hand would make for an interesting setup I think.
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What you forget is that the hand crossbows can have much better stats than quivers, and dual wielding gives you 15% AS.

Dual wielding has the potential to do just as much damage as 2 hand bows/xbows.


Too bad if a handxbow even gets on the AH with better than quiver stats with a decent DPS it's 30mil or more.
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I'm not certain yet, as I'm not even close to having the gear necessary to do end-game judgements... but dual wield is potentially advantageous for the reasons described above. It's more expensive certainly (two weapons instead of one), but the stats available to bows are slightly better than the stats available to quivers. I do have some questions though about which weapon attributes affect just the one bow and not the other.

I "believe" it's correct that all character attributes (dexterity, critical damage, and attack speed for example) affect both shots, but the specific weapon modifiers (magic damage bonuses basically) only apply to one shot. But is that exactly the case? For example, since emeralds add critical damage, they apply to both bows and rubies apply to only the bow they are gemmed to... but I suspect that a rubies weapon damage bonus "may" be being applied to both bows (like other weapon damage bonuses on items). I'm also assuming that the bow the character fires determines the damage of special abilities as well... which may be interesting in some context but I'm not sure how yet.
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Right now, dual wielding adds a flat 15% haste. So in order to benefit from dw over 1h + quiver, your offhand crossbow would need to have more stats than a quiver, and it would have to be as good as your main hand weapon. However, 1h crossbows never have as much damage as similarly rolled 2h crossbows, and 2h crossbows can also equip quivers, so dw is worthless.

Dual wielding should add 30% haste. Then it would be worth it.
Edited by Itharius#1253 on 5/31/2012 12:31 PM PDT
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Dw is great for proc based attacks such as stuns or pierces or life on hit or any other weapon effects like freezing.
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Oh, I forgot. The only good thing about DW is that you have two weapon gem slots. Meaning you can stack two emeralds for 100% crit damage. But then you lose 50% crit damage from 2h crossbow mastery in exchange for a lousy 10% crit from 1h crossbow.
Edited by Itharius#1253 on 5/31/2012 12:42 PM PDT
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No they don't...They just need to add the ability for better stats to quivers and increase the damage of two handed bows.

Right now as it stands you can get better stats and more DPS on dual wielded two handed crossbows. It isn't cheap...But you can.

What they need to do is give quivers some bonuses that can't be found on bows.
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my 1 hander has a DPS of 700 119+ dex, 13 IAS and socket, and my other has 580 dps, 15% as, 51 crit 60 vit, and i bought both of these bows on AH for less than 1 mil for the pair...

you just have to look around there are scrubs out there who dont know what they are worth.

ALSO, my DPS is 19k, average hit is 25k, impale is upwards of 40k, and i attack side by side with another DH, and i am A LOT faster then they are...

with a 1 handed bow with simular mods, and a quiver with simular stats, my DPS dropped about 3k, my HP dropped by 4k, and was a lot slower...

ill take the dual weapons all day long. the reason the 1100 bows are expensive is because WD's use them as well, and i have seen some pretty BA wizards using high damage bows as well
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and i forgot, both bows are level 53 or lower because of the lower requirement skill on them.
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I was looking over one of the data mining sites to pull some numbers for top end weapons (ilvl 63).

Hand Crossbow 258.4 - 263.2 Damage Per Second
(48-50)-(275-279) Damage
1.60 Attacks Per Second

Crossbow 501.1 - 514.3 Damage Per Second
(413-421)-(498-514) Damage
1.10 Attacks Per Second

Bow 376.6 - 380.8 Damage Per Second
(80-82)-(458-462) Damage
1.40 Attacks Per Second

So the base damage of hand crossbows is roughly 1/2 of the comparable crossbow. So between the 15% haste and the differences in magic attributes between crossbow/quiver and xbow/xbow, you have to get up to double damage to be doing equivelent paper doll dps. I'm not sure if that's reasonable or not. And that doesn't take into account the "real" dps you do based on skills, hatred/discipline, movement, and all the other factors that favor the regular xbow...

That said, going on this method... it seems like the last bow is really really bad.
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