Diablo® III

Are 2handers worth it?

Hi there, I'm currently in act II-III in inferno and the next step on improving my gear is getting a better weapon. I currently have a 680dps 1h weapon along with a 130dex/130vit shield. However, I can't find any >800dps weapons for less than 1 million on the auction house. I do not have that kind of money so I started searching for alternatives and found that 2handers with 1100 go for as low as 275k. A particular one caught my attention- a 1138dps Daibo, with a 18% attack speed buff.
So I was wondering, should I upgrade to a 2hander until I can make enough money for better 1h weapons?
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Posts: 401
I picked up a blue 812 dps claw with a 70dex/70 vit for 400k 4-5 days ago. They are out there!
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I'm currently using a 850 dps daibo, and it's working very nicely. The thing about dw vs 2h is where the extra damage goes. 2h gives extra damage to all of your abilities while dw gives a bonus to atk spd. If your staff/daibo/polearm hits as fast as a 1h, and you're ok with not going sword+board, then by all means, use a 2h'er.
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I have a 960 dps staff with atk spd and dex that I'm using right now. Got it for free, so it was a better deal than spending over 1mil for a comparable 1 hander.

It's working quite well with DR, as each hit is punishing. Great for kiting.

It's especially good with SSS. Pop BL, MoC active, then SSS and you'll get upwards of 50% extra damage on your SSS.
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2handers can be fine with the right build; it's a different style of play though.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?f=post&forum=3354998&q=2hander&sort=time&dir=a
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I have a 960 dps staff with atk spd and dex that I'm using right now. Got it for free, so it was a better deal than spending over 1mil for a comparable 1 hander.


That's another thing. 2h'ers are SOOOOOOO much cheaper than 1h'ers when comparing dps. as well, rather than getting a boost to atk spd, you get bonus damage on all abilities, which can easily outweigh an extra 1/7th of a hit per second.
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It will mostly depend on your style.

If you are running a life-on-hit build, a 2H is a bad choice, as you hit much less often.
You will also generate spirit more slowly, so if you depend on Transcendence to heal yourself with spirit-spending abilities, you will have less spirit to spend and heal yourself less often.

The loss of armor from the shield will make you hurt more.

On the positive side, each attack will hit harder.
This doesn't change much for spirit building attacks and attacks that don't have a cooldown.
E.g. DR may hit twice as hard, but you also hit half as often, which cancels each other out.
2nd e.g. Wave of Light may hit twice as hard, but it takes twice as long to generate enough spirit for it, so it also cancels each other out.
However, abilities that are limited by a cooldown (e.g. SSS) or doing constant damage (Sweeping Winds) greatly benefit from a 2H. They hit twice as hard and can still be used as often.

Myself, I just acquired an extremely cheap 2H (950dps with some dex for 22k) and I will try it out with a Sweeping Winds build.
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The problem with 2hers is you sacrifice a slot essentially.

1her/shield gives you a ton of armor you otherwise wouldn't have and another resist slot.

2x 1her, you get extra damage/spirit regen via attack speed and with 2 high dex weapons you can go part way to mitigating some of the armor (assuming seize passive, plus the bonus native dodge form extra dex) lost from dropping the shield. Assuming your shield didn't have a lot of dex to begin with. And lets face it, most of us are making do with what we can get out hands on so we're not perfectly itemized.

2her effectively leaves that off hand slot naked. The compensate generally a 2her has higher dps as the same ilevel 1her but the roll range (as far as I'm aware) for all the stats is still the same. So effectively you need to need to get by with less of everything else and more damage. They're pure offence.

I do remember reading something a while ago however, and I'll be damned if I can manage to find it again, that the idea for monks from blizz was DWing as the standard with 2hers for those ahead of the gear curve or who could make it work through specific builds. The point of the article was basically, if you're using a shield, you're doing it wrong and you need to go back and get more gear. If you can use a 2her, you're ahead of the curve.

This is proving to be the case I've found as well. I'm actually fairing better in act 2 inferno DWing then I was with a shield because that's how we're designed to work. And a few days ago when I first hit inferno there's no way I ever dreamt of dropping the shield. Now I'm doing full clear manor->butcher runs using a 2her and swapping out a few of my older pieces for mf gear and in very good time too.
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Posts: 150
One thing I just can't get around on 2h-ers is the slow speed compared to DW or a single fast 1h constantly knocking back mobs, preventing them from attacking you.

Justifying a 2h by being ahead of the gear curve does not seem like an equally valid choice to me, which is what the game was supposed to offer. There's a reason they are so cheap on the AH.
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I didn't say it was balanced I just said that was apparently the goal. And of course the niche builds revolving around certain skills. Ones with really big deals x% weapon damage benefit quite well from a using a 2her. Of course any weapon damage skill will see marked returns on damage from the higher damage range on a 2her. That's the other trade off. A few big numbers over a lot of smaller ones.

And remember when a skill talks about weapon damage% its not talking in % of your raw dps, its talking about the damage range on the weapon unmodified by attack speed.

So ways to exploit this?

CW: Mangle rune take it to a whopping 143%
Ltk: 200% weapon damage in an AoE, chuck norris didn't have a roundhouse kick that mean
SW: with Blade Storm rune at 3 stacks thats 60% to everything around you
WoL: Pick your poison with the rune, get some +crit dmg and +crit chance get to go with it and see if you can break the 6 digit barrier
MoC: Submission rune, 12% of your weapon damage is still no joke when its being applied to everything within a 20 yard radius. Especially when combined with MoC's inherent amplify damage

Any builds working around those sorts of ideas (my act 1 inferno farming build for one) works on the notion of effective damage. Everyone laughs at the guy with 30k dps and 15k hp because when he gets one shotted his effective dps is now 0. The same works for mobs. if they're dead before they land an attack then they cant kill you can they? And I'm only using a 750 dps daibo. With a 1k+ that's just disgusting

And as for attack speed on a 2her if it feels too slow you're doing it wrong. Daibo's are the fastest of the polearm class (hence the least effective for pulling those big numbers) but we do need some speed for spirit generation. Mine has a base attack speed of 1.36 aps and after my +as gear I'm getting 1.9 aps.

So yes, you will need attack speed gear and yes you will probably need it on your daibo too. But using that as an argument that they're broken/pointless is like saying that armour isn't worth getting because you have to hunt around for the right stats. Not everything that drops is worth using. A daibo without +as or without enough +as on other gear to compensate is just as useless a wand with stacked dex or an xbow with stacked str. bad rolls happen. No news there
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Posts: 150
Despite the higher damage, I don't see it as effective as a 1h+shield, or 1h DW at this current state.

Especially when our 3rd hit combo usually has additional benefits that you want to keep up as much as possible--moreso when they only last seconds. The last thing you want is to delay that 3rd hit. You generally want it spammed as much as possible because a lot of procs don't scale with the damage of a 2h.

The only thing a 2h is good for is making spirit spenders more effective in burst damage, but there's little to no reason to use them any other time. 1h is just the better overall weapon in my opinion.
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