Diablo® III

How, exactly, does Magic Find work?

I've been reading up on Magic Find's mechanics in D3, but I can't find anything concrete - it's all guesses and conjecture, not posts by Blizzard devs or the like.

I have three broad questions about Magic Find mechanics:

1) When is Magic Find checked? When you engage an enemy, when it dies, or something else? (In other words, does it work/is it worth it to tote around a MF set and swap to it when a boss is at 5%?)

2) What does it do, exactly? Does MF make enemies drop (on average) more items, better items, or both?

3) How does Nephalem Valor differ from regular Magic Find? (In other words, why is it worth it to spend 40min killing a boss with a NV 5stack and 100%+ MF from gear, instead of spending just five minutes to kill the same boss with 100%+ MF from gear, but no NV?)

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#1 is simple, and is the point of this post in a nutshell. I'd like to know if I should be swapping to a MF set right before killing a boss/champion. It worked in D2, but I haven't found any confirmation that the mechanic was retained for D3.

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For #2, my current understanding is:

*Mobs have some assigned chance to drop each category of item (e.g. a particular boss might drop, on average, 3 whites, 3 blues, and 1 rare).

* MF works as a simple multiplier for the above drop counts. If we kill the above boss while wearing +100% MF, he'll drop, on average, 6 whites, 6 blues, and 2 rares.

* MF is ONLY used to determine how many items drop. Once a particular item drops, its stats are rolled independently of MF. MF, thus, doesn't turn blues into yellows, nor are the blues we find while wearing +100% MF any better, on average, than those we find with 0% MF.

This understanding is gleaned from random forum posters, though - I haven't found any authoritative source for how MF works. I doubt it's 100% correct, too, because between 75% MF from NV and ~100% from the MF set I swap to, I should be seeing ~3x as many items drop from bosses when I'm wearing my MF set than when I'm not. It's hard to say anything conclusive about random loot drops without a huge sample of boss kills, but it definitely doesn't feel like 3x.

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For #3, if NV is simply what its tooltip says (a 15% MF/GF buff), then there shouldn't be a difference in (average) drops when killing a boss with a 5stack of NV and killing the same boss with no NV, but 75% MF from gear. This would mean we could skip finding and killing champion packs, and just farm a boss over and over again, getting our MF from gear. This doesn't seem to be the case. I just killed Siegebreaker with no NV and after swapping to a ~100% MF set and saw no rares drop, while I've always had bosses drop 2+ rares when I have a 5stack of NV.
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3)NV works slightly different than normal mf, in that it is specifically used to kill bosses. 75% mf- killing a boss will more than likely drop blues/crap. 0 mf but 75% from NV- bosses will tend to drop 2 rares minimum.


I agree it seems to work a bit different for bosses but it is also useful for finding more items/gold in general. It increases both MF and GF by 75%, as well it seems to increase the amount of loot bosses drop.

I see no reason not to get 5 stack of NV ... if you can handle the elites of course. Add 75% MF on top of your MF gear, that's a significant MF boost.
Edited by SnowBro#1782 on 6/2/2012 2:33 PM PDT
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06/02/2012 02:08 PMPosted by shame
bump


Thanks for the bump, I'd actually given up hope when the post fell off the front page with no replies. Maybe that was premature.

Sigh... so many posts answer this, its probably answered in the game guide as well... oh well im bored at work so ill make this breif.

1)when a monster dies.

2)increases the quality of loot. Used to seeing alot of whites/blues? More mf=those being upgraded to rare/legendary

3)NV works slightly different than normal mf, in that it is specifically used to kill bosses. 75% mf- killing a boss will more than likely drop blues/crap. 0 mf but 75% from NV- bosses will tend to drop 2 rares minimum.


Yup, that's what I read in (most, but not all) posts on the topic. That doesn't mean it's right, though, and nobody actually has/knows/posts references. It's 100% "I am posting this as correct, because I read somebody else post this as correct." I'd like to actually nail it down.

06/02/2012 02:32 PMPosted by SnowBro
I see no reason not to get 5 stack of NV ... if you can handle the elites of course. Add 75% MF on top of your MF gear, that's a significant MF boost.


If, hypothetically, 75% MF were equivalent to a NV 5stack, it'd be more rares per hour to do 5min Siegebreaker runs with 75% MF than 40min Siegebreaker runs with 5x NV + 75% MF.

This clearly isn't the case (I tested it, see the OP) but we still don't know exactly how NV works.

I'll probably end up testing it myself, since I can't seem to find anything concrete.
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but if you played d2 you know that there were certain mf thresholds you had to break in order to get the higher tier, well a chance at the higher tier drops. i cant exactly remember what the breakpoints were, and my question is it the same for d3?
Edited by UncleTwinkie#1891 on 6/3/2012 1:42 AM PDT
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06/03/2012 01:23 AMPosted by Kethas
bump


Thanks for the bump, I'd actually given up hope when the post fell off the front page with no replies. Maybe that was premature.

Sigh... so many posts answer this, its probably answered in the game guide as well... oh well im bored at work so ill make this breif.

1)when a monster dies.

2)increases the quality of loot. Used to seeing alot of whites/blues? More mf=those being upgraded to rare/legendary

3)NV works slightly different than normal mf, in that it is specifically used to kill bosses. 75% mf- killing a boss will more than likely drop blues/crap. 0 mf but 75% from NV- bosses will tend to drop 2 rares minimum.


Yup, that's what I read in (most, but not all) posts on the topic. That doesn't mean it's right, though, and nobody actually has/knows/posts references. It's 100% "I am posting this as correct, because I read somebody else post this as correct." I'd like to actually nail it down.

06/02/2012 02:32 PMPosted by SnowBro
I see no reason not to get 5 stack of NV ... if you can handle the elites of course. Add 75% MF on top of your MF gear, that's a significant MF boost.


If, hypothetically, 75% MF were equivalent to a NV 5stack, it'd be more rares per hour to do 5min Siegebreaker runs with 75% MF than 40min Siegebreaker runs with 5x NV + 75% MF.

This clearly isn't the case (I tested it, see the OP) but we still don't know exactly how NV works.

I'll probably end up testing it myself, since I can't seem to find anything concrete.


Don't think you are listening .. if you are NV breaks down the chance or increased chance of rares on bosses SPECIFICALLY. It does help with champions and elites (more so on the later). From my 200 runs testing this in inferno (using 95% confidence levels):

0 NV - 3~ blues, .1 rares
1 NV - 4 ~ blues, 1 rares
2 NV - 4~ blues, 1-2 rares
3 NV - 5 ~ blues, 1-2 rares
4 NV - 5 ~ blues, 2 rares
5 NV - 6~ blues, 2-4 rares

This is why 75% MF is not the same as 75% NV .. you need the NV to increase the classification of drops from bosses, you need the MF to increase the percentage of the base chance of a magical item. So in essence, you have if you have 75 MF/75 NV, you have 150% MF with a boss classification level of 5. Meaning that it's 150% greater chance of dropping a magical item of the system. So if a boss drops 2-4 rares, it means that you have a 150% chance of getting a legendary out of the 2-3 rares that he drops.
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5 stack neph is good. However I firmly believe no matter what anyone says that MF % effects stats somehow. Cus I have to run with zero MF with 5 stack Neph, and after 200 hours played I have not found jack. I hunt only in inferno.

Mobs killed so far: 160k.
Elites killed: 6k.

Total dropped upgrades once in Inferno: 0
Total set items: 0
Total legendaries: 0
Total amount of sellable AH items: around 10 items (all under 300k worth).
Total amount of vendor trash that no one in their right mind would want: every drop.

I can't get more MF cus then I would die even faster than I already do. How I got money to buy AH gear was a pure fluke on a wizard armor item I crafted that sold for 6 mill.

edit. just now Ghom dropped me a 83 dps lvl 50 dagger. Yea, go me.
Edited by fixit#1698 on 6/3/2012 2:01 AM PDT
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5 stack neph is good. However I firmly believe no matter what anyone says that MF % effects stats somehow. Cus I have to run with zero MF with 5 stack Neph, and after 200 hours played I have not found jack. I hunt only in inferno.

Mobs killed so far: 160k.
Elites killed: 6k.

Total dropped upgrades once in Inferno: 0
Total set items: 0
Total legendaries: 0
Total amount of sellable AH items: 0
Total amount of vendor trash that no one in their right mind would want: every drop.

I can't get more MF cus then I would die even faster than I already do.

edit. just now Ghom dropped me a 83 dps lvl 50 dagger. Yea, go me.


Sounds like you need to stop running with yourself and run with a party? When I was pushing content in act 2, I ran with 0 MF and NV only. I think my wiz buddy had like 20 mf on a ring so it was marginal. We were still getting rares though. In fact ouroburos dropped off the first white trash mob I found (the good kind too, 153 dex version) and we didn't have any NV or MF on at that time. For me:

Total Legendaries: 4
Total Set Items: 15
Total AH: Too many to count

As far as upgrades .. that's a different story. I haven't found very many upgrades (I'm kind of thankful as this could dilute the AH market AND make the game easier way to fast) but I normally am able to sell EVERY rare I find on the AH for a minimum of 3k (up to 20 mil now).
Edited by Silicon#1348 on 6/3/2012 2:03 AM PDT
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So MF works just like it did in D2.

The difference is for lvl 60 buff for killing boss mobs.

I am not there yet but does it display? From the post it is inferred that it is not.
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06/02/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Chaotic
It doesn't work. That's how it works.


Over all the paragraphs people are writing...this guy beat me to the punch.

MF is complete sheeeeet.
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